Fishing Along Indian Reservation borders

Discussion in 'ARIZONA RIVERS TALK' started by Az Birddog, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. Az Birddog

    Az Birddog New Member

    Messages:
    114
    State:
    Tucson, Az.
    I am planning on heading back up to the Gila river soon. The spot I am looking at shares boundary lines with the Apache Res. Does anyone know if it's okay to fish the river as long as stay on the state side of it? I know that when you fish the Black and Salt river on the Res, you have to camp on the side you bought permits for. But you can fish anywhere. My thoughts are that the same rules apply to public lands. Any feedback would be great. Thanks.
     
  2. lilmonster23

    lilmonster23 New Member

    Messages:
    742
    State:
    arizona
    i would think you should be able to fish state side when they share the same border.doesnt the salt river below sag. share borders with ft mcdowell land? but would like to see what other people say.
     

  3. suey

    suey New Member

    Messages:
    140
    State:
    arizona
    when you fish a river that borders TWO different reservations, you have to pay both reservations.... so its double...

    why you ask? cuzz they share the same water... i dont think its like the colorado river, where if you shore fish from one side you only need that states license....

    best to just email and contact that tribes land it borders....

    better safe than sorry against the tribes
     
  4. Rcaarizona

    Rcaarizona New Member

    Messages:
    1,183
    State:
    AZ
    OK I know the Gila really well. You can fish the state side of the river, but there is a point where the whole gila river is on the San Carlos Indian reservation, so watch where you are going, it tranisitions onto the SCIR after Christmas. you will see where the 77 starts heading a sharp westward route, and the river heads North East of there, The SCIR considers the river on their land from that point on. You got to remember border areas are tricky, cause the Indians think they own it all, and the law is funky out in no mans land, I fish on a border to the reservation all the time, and you can ask Brianthelion, gwille, bigfisher17, overkil, waterdawg, or vinny, We have been visited by the people, who swear it is their land, others who swear it is private property (which is also BS), and no body really knows whose land it is. I did my research for a long time, and what I did was got a BLM map, and a gps of exactly where I fish, and according to the BLM map I wasnt on anything but state land. So that can be a precaution to your trip, because you have to convince the Indians right then and there, that it is not their land. Otherwise, risk arrest, and confiscation of equipment and vehicles. If you bring a gun, hide it well, cause contrary to popular belief, you CAN NOT be on ANY reservation with a handgun, EVEN IF you have an Arizona CCW. That goes the same with any alcohol. Absolutely no booze whatso ever is allowed on ANY Indian reservation, and Eitehr a gun, or booze, will get you arrested.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
  5. Overkil

    Overkil New Member

    Messages:
    462
    State:
    Arizona
    happened a few weeks ago when I was fishing with rob and the others...rob handled the "authorities" and adjacent land owner very well and convinced them we were in the right to be where we were..

    I can see the benefit of having a BLM map and GPS with you...good advice.
     
  6. Rcaarizona

    Rcaarizona New Member

    Messages:
    1,183
    State:
    AZ
    OK I suppose you are going to fish the river by Winkleman. The river on both sides from Winkleman to Christmas does not border the SCIR, but they love to claim this area, and if you, go be prepared to be confronted. The Gila does not actually go onto the SCIR until about a mile before the Coolidge Dam. The river does not even border the Reservation until after Christmas, once you get off on a dirt road for a couple miles. Even then, you are legal to fish there, but you are in between the borders of the SCIR, and bound to get questioned. The SCIR loves to claim that piece of Real Estate too, that actually belongs to Arizona. The purple is the SCIR, and dotted line in this link, is the Gila River. Copy and paste this whole link including the united states to see what I am talking about.

    http://www.multimap.com/maps/?zoom=...formation&loc=US:33.189:-110.5274:12|coolidge dam|Coolidge Dam, Gila, Arizona, United States
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
  7. Rcaarizona

    Rcaarizona New Member

    Messages:
    1,183
    State:
    AZ
    ORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRr, An invitation out to the river with ya, and I can show you some really outstanding spots on the ole Gila river. But, i come with a package, cause myself, gwille, overkil, Brian, and couple others are heading that way next week.
     
  8. Az Birddog

    Az Birddog New Member

    Messages:
    114
    State:
    Tucson, Az.
    Thanks Rob. I was looking at Google Earth and the spot I was looking at seems to be on the Res. It's just west of Porphryry Gulch where the river loops North then back South then loops North a little again. It looks like a pretty widish spot so I was thinking it may run a little slower there. The border runs right across that exact spot though. I am glad you clarified that because the GPS coords from GE do not match up exactly with my Garmin Mapsource. I was thinking of heading out on my quad just to see if there is a road that gets back there but since it seems to be on Indian land, I will probably go a little more West towards Christmas. Thanks for the link to that map, it is what i was looking for. It might be a few weeks now because I was just informed that it's gonna cost me $1200 to get the little ladies car back on the road. (the computer went out:sad2:, so much for the overtime I put in.)
    What day are you guys gonna head out? Just in case.
     
  9. Rcaarizona

    Rcaarizona New Member

    Messages:
    1,183
    State:
    AZ
    I have fished Porphryry Gulch, from the freeway, all the way to the gulch IS NOT on the reservation, but that is the exact strip of land I am talking about, where it is inbetween the borders of the reservation and it is no mans land. Now unless you know that area, this will sound weird. But, in that area you have to fish the NORTH side of the Gila, the South side is on the SCIR. Although that area is 100 pecent state land, the Indians love to try and claim that you are fishing on their land.
    Be SUPER careful with your quad as well, Do a little research or call the tribe, because ATVs are 100 percent banned on the San Carlos, and they will take your quad, there is no special permit for quads either. Laws out in these areas get weird, and you must inform yourself, cause they will nail you to the wall.
    Not sure when we are going, definately a weekday though for sure, will let you know! I am also curious to who pointed you in that direction< someone local must of, cause that is good stuff, and somewhat hard to find, and probably some of the best flatheading in AZ, atleast to me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
  10. Az Birddog

    Az Birddog New Member

    Messages:
    114
    State:
    Tucson, Az.
    Earlier this summer I ran into a good ol' boy who told me there was this spot where there are cliffs but you need 4x4 to get there. So I have been looking on GE and on maps. All this time waitin for the weather to cool down a bit, I had nothin left to do but plan. So that's when I thought "that looks like a spot no one ever goes to". I think my Fattie is waiting there for me.
    I could take my 4Runner but wasn't sure if there was actually a road and I can cover alot more ground on the quad. I know there's no ATVs allowed on SCIR but since I'm not actually planning on going there I figure that I shouldn't get in any trouble. That's the last thing I want. I do have a USGS Map that puts the border right on the river. I've never had any trouble from the SCIR G&F but I don't want to give them any reason to hassle me anyway.
    Thanks for the info, I learn alot from your posts.
     
  11. Rcaarizona

    Rcaarizona New Member

    Messages:
    1,183
    State:
    AZ
    OK, by no means am I a racist towards Indians. However, the Indian police do love to claim you are on their land when you are not. Just an FYI I am married to a 100% pure blooded Navajo woman, which some on here have met, and have been for 15+ years. Which of course makes my kids half. Fact is the Indian Authorities will harass you when you fish their borders......All the way from the Salt River Tribe, San Carlos Tribe, White Mountian, Fort MCdowell, Navajo, Hopi, and Sacaton, those areas I have been confronted, and all have claimed that I was on their land, When I cleary was not. It is not a matter of if they will question you, it is a matter of when, and at that moment in time, you better know what you are talking about, cause they can ticket, fine, confiscate, prosecute you, even when you are not on their land, because you have to go to a BIA court on their land, and of course you can guess how that will go. Some folks from here that fish with me have expereinced being questioned more than once, from authorites ranging from Maricopa Sheriff, Salt River Police, Mesa Police, some doof ball private land owner, who doesnt know his borders, to private security gaurds. In fact I think twice now, we had Helicopters hang over us with spotlights LoL. All have resulted in the same thing...nothing, and we keep fishing once I prove that we are not on their land.
     
  12. Overkil

    Overkil New Member

    Messages:
    462
    State:
    Arizona
    they also don't like it when you accidently play paintball on their land, but that's a story for another time...