Fail safe = black talon / stx ranger

Discussion in 'Handgun Talk' started by chambers bd, Sep 11, 2007.

  1. chambers bd

    chambers bd New Member

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    1,134
    State:
    Sautee,Geo
    Whats the best defense round your input is invited.:big_smile:
     
  2. CatfishJohn.612

    CatfishJohn.612 New Member

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    54
    State:
    Texas
    Barnes XTP. By far I have found has the best penetration and weight retention. Not to mention I have done some testing on the local hogs and coyotes here and by far the XTP's wound channel is the most devastating.JMO
     

  3. bootshowl

    bootshowl New Member

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    2,288
    State:
    Indiana, J
    Brian I think that's dependant on the gun you've chosen. Developement in ammunition has at least "kept up" with firearms, if not surpassed it. The guns that were considered sub standard for personal defence, now have a place with the right ammo. Federal has made great changes; then there's Cor-bon and Glazer and Mag-safe. Speer was the king there for a decade or so, but technology marches on. It's a great age. I think "hard ball" or the FMJ in anything but the 45ACP isn't a good choice. But great for practice.
    The best gun, ammo combination is the one you have with you when you need it, STILL. It doesn't do any good in the safe at home, LOL.
     
  4. Wallbass

    Wallbass New Member

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    334
    State:
    Indiana
    You cant beat Remington Gold Sabers in HP
     
  5. CatfishJohn.612

    CatfishJohn.612 New Member

    Messages:
    54
    State:
    Texas
    Sorry about that I meant Hornady XTP's. LOL Thats what I get for trying to do to many things at once. :embarassed:

    Well put, it will also depend on if your weapon will digest the ammo. Some can and will fire any kind of ammo, others are picky.

    I like the XTP's because I have never had a problem with them. The speer gold dots are a close second. JMHO

    heres the link to Hornady's site if you want to take a look:
    https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_se...&category_id=3fe8627e8ceac2296eaf451187f14647
     
  6. xringer3

    xringer3 New Member

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    950
    State:
    Oklahoma
    The only problem with the XTPs is that they are still made with old technology. I've seen many failures with this bullet from game to humans. They will seperate from thier jacket and loose some of thier integrity when passing through hard barriers. They've clogged up with hide and clothing and turned into a FMJ. They are just not as dependable through the vast spectrum of shooting conditions to take first place above the bonded core bullets, or even some of the new solid copper ones that are one piece. To get the bullet to do what it was intended to do, it has to stay together, and expand. If the jacket comes off, or it pluggs up, it won't do that.
     
  7. brinley45cal

    brinley45cal Active Member

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    2,606
    State:
    kentucky
    I like the cor-bons and federal hydra-shoks.To me i think it depends on the caliber,for instance the gold dots are great in .40cal but they dont do well and sometimes function well in a .45ACP.
     
  8. xringer3

    xringer3 New Member

    Messages:
    950
    State:
    Oklahoma
    My 200 grain gold dots function perfectly in my kimber, and out performed everything else in all the barrier tests, expansion, penetration, etc. It hits harder than any other 45acp load and deffinitely more than the 40 or 9mm.
     
  9. GMC FishHauler

    GMC FishHauler New Member

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    1,335
    State:
    Waco, Texas, Un
    i personally like hydra shocks. THey do not over penetrate, and they put alot of energy into the target. It all depends on what you are shooting and what scenario you see yourself needed personal protection ammo in. I do not want my bullet to pass thru the target, this brings too many liability issues. I want my bullet to hit hard and stay in the target.
    I shoot a 40, if i was shooting something faster like a .357 sig i would use something even faster expanding.
     
  10. xringer3

    xringer3 New Member

    Messages:
    950
    State:
    Oklahoma
    The only problem with hollow points is that if the hollow cavity plugs up with anything, then it becomes a solid and won't expand. To expand, you have to have fluid (blood) pushing outward on the inside of the cavity walls. Once the cavity is plugged up with clothing, dry wall, wood, or leather from a jacket, then there's no room for the fluid to enter. I've seen hydra shocks in actuall shootings not expand at all because they were plugged up by clothing. The gold dots and federal tactical, both bonded core bullets with large hollow points, have expanded reliably in all the actual shootings I've witnessed. The other thing I noticed about the hydra shock, or any other bullet built with the same method like the XTP, is that once they pass through glass or thin metal, they come apart. I'm not knocking ones choice of bullet, but as far as real life performance goes, the gold dot and federal tactical perform better hands down!
     
  11. DJH1

    DJH1 New Member

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    184
    State:
    Missouri
    For self defense, Black Talons used to be the gold standard. On duty I used Winchester Ranger SXT's, which are supposed to be similar to black talons. I've also heard good things about speer gold dot. As long as you don't shoot him with an FMJ, the bad guy will probably never know the difference.
     
  12. massa_jorge

    massa_jorge New Member

    Messages:
    2,137
    State:
    TEXAS
    that's why i shoot a .45 acp! even in fmj configuration, has more proven knockdown power, as far as i have read. i test all my personal protection rounds on wild hogs. i figure they are tougher by far than a human, and so far most loads i have shot them with knocked their %^$# in the dirt. i used to use the winchester ranger sxt, 230 grain. hogs to 300 pounds hit in the vitals were d.r.t. i won't count a head shot on the bullet's effectiveness though. with that shot a .22 lr will drop about anything, and i would not even suggest that for self defense unless it was a last option... now i shoot the remington bulk pack 230 grain hp's. i have recovered bullets from deer and hogs both, and have never had a bullet fail to expand properly, for a lot less money than the sxt's. even when the bullet penetrated a shoulder or broke the spine, it still looked like something out of a magazine when i dug it out. just my .02. i am a firm believer that your load of choice will be a confidence issue, i just strongly recommend testing personal defense loads out on living critters to give you a better idea of how they will perform on an assailant.
     
  13. catfishbills

    catfishbills New Member

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    630
    State:
    Tennessee
    Cor-bon in 9mm and .40cal /Hydra shok in .45. :wink:
     
  14. Catfish Pursuit

    Catfish Pursuit New Member

    Messages:
    1,081
    State:
    Missouri
    We have to shoot the Federal Hydra-shock 230 .45 round here at work and we're trying to phase it out because it has failed to expand on several different tests we've tried. I personally love the ammo produced by the company Double Tap. I have shot alot of their ammo and it works great although loaded hotter than anything I have found also. They load alot of their calibers in the Gold Dot hollow point and use their own brass. For example, here's the ballistics on their 200 grain Gold Dot .45: 1125fps - 562 ft./lbs, pretty good and only $29.95 for a box of 50. Of course you also have to pay shipping but I don't mind for a quality product when my life depends on it. Their website is www.doubletapammo.com. Chris
     
  15. medic442

    medic442 New Member

    Messages:
    59
    State:
    lonedell mo
    seen the results of a guy shot 15-16 times close range with a .40 cal from a glock 22. about half the hits were the black talons and the other half were the new duty ammo.....hydra shocks..... lets just say that A BIG DIFFERNCE BETWEEN THE TWO!!!!!!

    i want my talons back!!!!! not even close!!!!
     
  16. olefin

    olefin New Member

    Messages:
    3,908
    State:
    Texas
    I had our guns (wife's S&W .38 SPL, my Glock 9 MM) loaded with Cor-bon. After reading about Glazers, I tested them recently at our farm... wow!
    I now have Glazer as the first 2 rounds in each gun and the remainder with Cor-bon.

    For target practice.... still use my homemade .357 wadcutters for our Colt Pythons. :big_smile:
     
  17. okiecop

    okiecop New Member

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    265
    State:
    Grove, OK
    Not sure how they work or even if they work but my dept. issues us 115gr winchester ranger ammo. not sure why LEO only marking on the box tho.