Ethanol: is it worth it?

Discussion in 'General Conversation' started by Phil Washburn, Jun 28, 2008.

  1. Phil Washburn

    Phil Washburn New Member

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    Shawnee OK
    i think mandated ethanol laws are dumber than a box of rocks. the negatives soooo outweigh the positives. this will never be an acceptable fuel alternative. corn is, i think, the second most available and affordable food after rice.(someone feel free to correct me if i am wrong). now farmers are selling it for fuel. my grocery bill just keeps going up. as if losing corn food supply to ethanol wasn't enough, we have heavy flooding across the corn belt.

    there are poor people that have a worse diet because of it. cars get less fuel mileage with ethanol than they do with gasoline.

    chime in...what are your thoughts on this?
     
  2. derbycitycatman

    derbycitycatman Well-Known Member

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    Have to agree with most of your post but sugar cane ethanol seems to be working for Brazil. Im also not sure that people are eating worse foods now than before though, Mcdonalds has always been profitable. I dont know why the powers to be are so dumb they try the same thing that didnt work last time, corn ethanol, isnt that a definition of insanity or stupidity? Thats "do-gooders" for ya. Ethanol isnt worth it unless your cashing the checks from it.
     

  3. Phil Washburn

    Phil Washburn New Member

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    7,680
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    Shawnee OK
    let me clarify, Brian. i was speaking of poor people across the globe. only in america are the poor people fat. we about to go from a corn exporter to a corn importer. that means less corn available in poorer countries.IMHO
     
  4. GaryF

    GaryF New Member

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    A bright spot of corn ethanol is that the money stays in the US, we are the worlds big producer.

    That said, I have to agree that it's a bad idea. we will be weighing our vehicle use against starving people in the near future, and that just won't work.
     
  5. oh no

    oh no New Member

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    There are other crops that make good ethanol, It is silly to use it for fuel. Corn the last I checked topped 8 dollars a bushel. Beef, pork, chicken, eggs and other stuff, will go threw the roof in price.

    Plus there are all those dummy's that bought Corn Stoves to heat their houses. LOL Because wood is too messy. LOL LOL Those folks are pissed now. lol lol I'm sorry for laughing at those folks, but I just can't help myself.

    There ethanol plants that they have stopped construction on because of corn prices. Used to be 3 -- 3.50 a bushel, now 8 dollars and above. I even planted some field corn to hand pick. As I can not afford to buy it now.

    We have 2 beef that will be freezer or canning jar material this winter. I will not feed them over the winter.

    If feed prices get a lot higher, which they will, my wife's horses are living on borrowed time. They passed a dumb law that you can not butcher horses for human consumption. Used to be slaughter houses that butchered them and shipped meat over seas and to Canada.

    Now horse rescue outfits are swamped because people can not afford to feed them, and the don't have a per pound price. They are/old horses, worth nothing!!!!!!!

    Now you have to get a backhoe and hide them. LOL LOL

    Our Government At Work. Go Nancy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL LOL


    I'm sorry if I offended anyone, this country is getting stupid.
     
  6. bownero

    bownero New Member

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    3,137
    State:
    Hastings, Ne.
    thanks for the post Phil! i believe Ethanol is a waste of time and money. first of all, the farmers are just breaking even producing the corn for the making of Ethanol. with the high fuel prices for running the farmers machines, it outweighs the prices they are getting for their crops. Ethanol enriched fuels burn hotter and they get worse fuel consumption. Myself, I use unleaded gasoline and will continue to do so. I believe using E-85 (85% Ethanol and 15% gasoline), is useless! First of all most vehicles need to be tuned to run on the stuff and even though it costs less, your mileage to gas consumption ratio is less compared to using gasoline. There should be an alternitive fuel for the American public to use. Make it and use it, to heck with the rich oil tycoons making billions of dollars of profit from us!!

    just my thoughts!!
    Mark..
     
  7. oh no

    oh no New Member

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    11,108
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    That you Phil for the topic.

    I am sorry if I offended anyone. I don't want this thread to end up in the Hi area. Everyone needs to voice their opinion on this.

    If you want to cuss at me, send me a PM and I will listen. Don't let this thread get kicked into the Hi area over my opinion.


    Jim
     
  8. Cheryl

    Cheryl Well-Known Member

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    I saw the show on Brazil being the only country that does NOT import fuel. They use the sugar cane. (They started researching and doing something about it in the 70's, and now it is paying off for them.) I believe it was called 'We Were Warned, Out of Fuel'. There is another interesting one called 'Crude Impact'. You can find a site on the net on the last one.
     
  9. JERMSQUIRM

    JERMSQUIRM New Member

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    13,145
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    il-waynesv
    dont forget that it takes two gallons of clean water to make 1 gal of eth. its a temporary fix to the real problem and will ultimately fail.


    cheryl. i seen that too. brazil is 100% self contained fuel from sugarcane. the rising oil prices doesnt effect them. looks like the U.S. has dropped the ball again. shame on us. but we have more fuel guzzeling cars in one state then the country of brazil ide bet.
     
  10. JERMSQUIRM

    JERMSQUIRM New Member

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    im out of reps jim. ill try and hit ya tomorow.

    they cant stop ya from self butchering your horse.:wink:

    ya wood is messy. but i aint no soccer mom. ill clean it.

    glad i did not spend $10,000 on an outdoor corn stove. i spent $1000 on a ul approved fireplace woodstove. 71% efficent. we never use the furnace now and the home stays in the high 70's to low 80's. and a $40 boxwood used stove keeps the shop so warm i have installed a vent and often crack the door when snow is on ground.

    all my heat is seasoning now for winter. the front pile is 3 deep and the long pile is double deep. im good for 08 and 1/2 or more of 09 right now.:wink:
     
  11. Phil Washburn

    Phil Washburn New Member

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    7,680
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    Shawnee OK
    the al gores, the greenies, and the left wingers have spread so much mis-information, dis-information, and lies that we are in a heck of a mess. did america need to become more resource/use conscience? beyond a shadow of a doubt. did they have to lie to get it done? no! that is the only way they know...............power for them comes thru fear mongering and intimidation.

    here are a few facts that are not secret, yet no one wants to talk about them.

    hybrid cars are an ecological joke. tree huggers like to talk about carbon footprints....do you have any idea what it takes to make the hundreds of lbs of batteries that they and electric cars use? did you know that, in 6 or 8 years, the $6000 dollar plus cost of batteries will total that car out? think about now having to dispose of batteries that size and the impact of the acid alone on the environment.

    didn't everyone just love the ban on R-12 that is used in cars? it cost billions of dollars to manufacturers, parts suppliers, and repair facilities. know what they have since discovered? cows, chewing their cud in the pasture, belch more ozone damaging gas than freon ever did.............have you heard ONE greenie agree to rescind that law???? NO...and you never will. al gore, and his ilk, will never admit to being wrong.

    uh oh...:crazy:..i think i just sent this to HI:angry::smile2:
     
  12. GaryF

    GaryF New Member

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    3,649
    State:
    O.P., KS

    I dunno Phil, I’ll leave the politics to you and the fine folks in HI.

    I drive a Civic Hybrid. The battery is a 150lb NiMH, the same chemistry you find in things like power tools. My cordless drill uses a 5 lb NiMH battery, and came with a spare. The batteries, when built correctly and managed to avoid over charge and over discharge can last decades and thousands of cycles. Mine has an 8 year warranty, although this can vary by state and dealer incentive. I’m not sure about Honda, but I’ve seen where Toyota offers a bounty on batteries that are salvaged from wrecked vehicles to make sure they are recycled, and the chemistry is completely recyclable.

    My truck uses a 60lb lead acid battery that will last 3-4 years, then those get recycled, so pretty much the same difference from an environmental impact standpoint.

    $3000 is the price I have heard for a replacement cost for a battery for the Civic. There have been a few failures I have read about, but the manufacturer has taken care of those people. Stuff happens, I’ve seen people with conventional cars have engine failures at under 50,000 miles, but those are the exceptions.

    Do I think Hybrids are a solution to our energy problem? No, it’s cheaper to just make some econo box that will get close to the same mileage as a Hybrid at a much cheaper price. Electric still has a ways to go, but if we don't find alternatives they might start to look pretty good when oil is $2000 a barrel and no one can afford gasoline.

    I think your negativity on Hybrids is over the top, why not slam pickups or other gas guzzlers?
     
  13. Phil Washburn

    Phil Washburn New Member

    Messages:
    7,680
    State:
    Shawnee OK
    Gary, technology is paying off then. it wasn't too long ago i was told by toyota factory reps about current battery technology. what year is your car?

    as far as regular batteries going bad, it's true. but replacing my battery at 50$ a pop isn't going to make me park my 1988 pickup. if i had a 10 year honda compact with a bad $3000+ battery, it just might.....then the energy it took to build the whole car comes into the equation. you do see that, don't you?

    and an internal combustion auto engine can be repaired...almost regardless of damage. not sure what that statement has to do with our discussion.
     
  14. Phil Washburn

    Phil Washburn New Member

    Messages:
    7,680
    State:
    Shawnee OK

    you have missed the point i am trying to make. my 1988 chevy 1/2 ton has over 400k miles on it.....hybrids will never see that kind of service...certainly not on a regular basis. i have a friend that has a '91 chevy 1/2 ton that has over 500k miles. we are milking the energy it took to build our pickups. i would love to have my truck get 50mpg....it ain't gonna happen.

    and i sure as heck can't haul a couple of V8s around in the back of your hybrid, now can i?

    running an auto repair shop, as i do, makes it necessary to have a truck. now if you are unhappy about all these folks driving hummers around by themself, knock yourself out - i think that is over the top.

    and my original gripe was about ethanol, not hybrids......they both share similar drawbacks tho. they both are claimed to have the potential to heal the oil disease we are said to have, but it is really just so much snake oil at this point in time.
     
  15. Bill in SC

    Bill in SC New Member

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    4,451
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    Ethanol is absolutely NOT economically viable. The reasons have already been stated in this thread. HEMP oil, on the other hand, is THE logical way to get this country independent from the other alternatives. That is 100% factual.
    Bill in SC
     
  16. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

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    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    Let 'em eat cake and drive on hemp. I luv it.

    OhNo earlier mentioned the cost of corn, if we got corn. Things ain't looking good out in fly over country on the total crop this year. If things go sour like they are looking and we get an early frost out here in the boonies it is Corn Flakes you are going to be worried about and not how much they put in cars. When that happens, as it might with soybeans and hay, the pork ,beef, lamb, milk, cheese, turkeys and chickens and eggs that won't be produced cheaply and efficiently will be staggering. Horse meat on the dinner table might look pretty inviting. I hope they don't kill 'em all before spring and bury them.
     
  17. derbycitycatman

    derbycitycatman Well-Known Member

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    Somebody's determined to send this to HI arent they? Cant we have a discussion without lib this and tree hugger that. As soon as somebody dares utter the word Rep%^*&)@n this will go HI? Havent heard too many of them admit their faults either. I guess its no fun if you cant play the blame game?:smile2::wink:
     
  18. catfishcentral

    catfishcentral New Member

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    1,497
    State:
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    There's also one other thing I don't like about Ethanol and that's a .51 cent subsidy on ever gal of this E85. We are paying our goverment to help people fuel there car with this stuff. I forgot the exact percentage but, say a gallon of gas is 3.00 and E85 is cheaper per gallon at 2.40 a gallon. The loss is MPG compared to regular gas would bring it's cost to around 3.30 per gal to get the same MPG. It's a nice idea but we have massive fuel consumption in this country. Looking at Brazil that uses sugar cane that's all fine and dandy but look how many cars are in their country and then look at ours. There's not enough land to make all this product to really make a dent in the amount of oil we need to operate. Farmers start growing more corn crops and using this land for more corn since it's more profitable than other crops. There's then a shortage of other crops and the costs go up on those also. Supply and Demand. Been somewhat researching CNG we got a lot of that stuff, burns really clean and almost any car can be converted to run on it. You can even put a pump in at your house and pump it at your own home. Only downside is the cost to convert but under a dollar a gallon to fill up at your own home.:big_smile:
     
  19. catfishcentral

    catfishcentral New Member

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    1,497
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    Hemp, while nobody eats this stuff what's going to happen to farmers who start using their fields to grow this stuff instead of food. The price of food will continue to soar because were using our land for oil instead of food. Sorry I'm not buying. At least with corn after "booze" is extracted the corn is still feed to animals.
     
  20. bearcat

    bearcat Member

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    925
    State:
    Nokomis, Illinois
    Phil you dont like ethanol. I am a farmer. Ethanol is a great place to start to replace some of the gas in the USA. It wasnt intended to replace oil. Just a good place to start.

    You guys dont like the blenders credit of 51cents. How much do you like the last energy bill that congress passed. It gave the oil companies 180,000,000 $ s in subsidies. Considering that the USA uses about 140 million gallons of gas a year that is over a dollar a gallon. I dont think that is right considering how much money the oil companies are making .

    I have a corn stove. It is still cheaper than LP . So I will continue to use it. I love it.

    Why is it the farmers are supposed to take it in the you know where so every one can eat cheap but everyone else has to have a great paying job.

    One last thing. The farmer will continue to produce a large ,safe food supply for all the rest of you. Dont worry we may be down this year but next year we will be back better than ever.

    One last thing You guys have heard to many rumors ,lies and false hoods about ethanol. It is a great product. Like the one post. Every dollar starts here and stays here. We dont have to fight other people for it.