does anybody think muzzleloaders are even primitive anymore

Discussion in 'Deer Hunting' started by quackkillsduxs, Dec 12, 2005.

  1. quackkillsduxs

    quackkillsduxs New Member

    Messages:
    98
    State:
    madison mississippi
    i was just wondering if anybody thinks muzzleloaders are even primitive anymore except for having to reload them? could they get anymore modern day?
     
  2. jtrew

    jtrew New Member

    Messages:
    4,404
    State:
    Little Rock, AR
    I'm not into those things, so bear in mind I'm plumb ignorant on the subject, but don't they even have 'muzzleloaders' that load from the breech now?
     

  3. bigfatcat

    bigfatcat New Member

    Messages:
    136
    State:
    virginia
    no you load a 209 shotgun primer in to the breech and then the powder and the bullet still go into the barrel
     
  4. jrm11

    jrm11 New Member

    Messages:
    92
    State:
    Fairmont, W Va.
    I honestly feel they have gone to far with modern day muzzleloader's.
    I still use the sidelock with a 50 cal. " ball " lol

    But to be honest, the dependablity of inline's is great !!!
    There's been a few times where the rainy days has got me, and my buddy got the buck b/c of modern muzzleloaders. kinda like that commercial for knight.

    That's just the way it goes...
     
  5. flathunter

    flathunter New Member

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    5,723
    State:
    Ohio
    I dont consider the modern inlines primative, but I would still like to have one :D
     
  6. VerotiK

    VerotiK New Member

    Messages:
    230
    State:
    Harrison, Arkansas
    Im with ya, me too.
     
  7. cook

    cook New Member

    Messages:
    1,494
    State:
    Plattsburg,Mo.(near K.C.)
    With the accuracy and knockdown power,it certainly reduces wounding deer.It's a personal choice,there are still flintlocks and other primatives available.
    All bows are grouped together here,no distinction between compounds,recurves,longbows,etc...
     
  8. THE FISH WHISPER'ER

    THE FISH WHISPER'ER New Member

    Messages:
    95
    State:
    waynesville ,IL
    i own both a thompson hawken and a thompson omega the hawken is more traditional but has failed me in foul weather , on the other hand the omega is not what i would call traditional but i would not give it up for anything it is about the sweetist thing i have ever shot espescily for a muzzel loader and boy does it reach out there and hamer 'em
     
  9. center12

    center12 New Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    State:
    KS
    If ya put a 1:28 twist barrel on a "traditional" muzzle loader it would shoot those high BC bullets just as well as an inline. A dependable ignition is the only real difference between the 2.............the rest is just looks. All that said, the Savage MLII and it's ability to shoot smokeless powder is a whole other ballgame.

    I'm in the muzzloader market right now and think my next gun will be the Sportsterized Cabela's Hawkins(same company that makes the Lyman GPR). We can't use scopes during our muzzleloader season so it's a 100 yard game(at a stretch)..................how much more lethal is an inline over a traditional under 100 yards with iron sights????
     
  10. MadKater

    MadKater New Member

    Messages:
    378
    State:
    Evansville,IN
    As far as them being primitive IMO they are not..more accurate..i dont think so.all depends on how you load the gun.bullets and powder has come along way from the "primitive" stage tho......i have several muzzle loaders and my favorite is my old T/C tree hawk in .54cal its a sweet shooting gun,i load it with 95grns of FF and a T/C "buffalo" bullet,with that combo it shoots tighter groups at 100yrds then y T/C encore in any combo of powder/bullet or saboted slug i use and the tree hawk is alot older then my encore{the tree hawk is a side lock muzz and the encore is the inline}.people also say that inlines are not "fair" because you can load them faster.not realy true.with speed loaders and what not i can load a "trad" muzz just as fast as the new inlines......the slugs,powder and loading tools have changed but the guns are basicly the same concept they just look differant.
    what about this savage muzz? i herd a few years ago that savage was suppose to come out with a muzz that used "rifle" powder,i guess thats it.i bet thats a tack driver.
     
  11. jim

    jim New Member

    Messages:
    2,579
    State:
    Jacksonville NC
    The "primitive" debate when I hunted in Colo was whether the modern inlines met the criteria for a primitive weapon.The intent of the early primitive seasons was to give those using truly primitive weapons like flintlocks,wheelocks etc a chance at deer and elk before they became disturbed by the conventional hunters and were difficult to approach within effective range.Like all good intentions littering the road to hell,hunters soon realized they could get the very best crack at elk before anyone else and started using the inlines with saboted bullets,the new black powder substitutes,scopes etc to take their elk before anyone else.Colo Game and Fish guys said wait a minute that wasn't what we meant by primitive.SO scopes ,sabots etc were banned and all is well I guess.The modern muzzle loader using the saboted bullets,new powders and scopes are just as effective as a 30-30 for the most part.Its all in the interpretation of the term primitive.I have no problem with them being used I just don't think they should participate in any special seasons designed for the truly primitive weapons.
     
  12. TOPS

    TOPS New Member

    Messages:
    4,099
    State:
    Cabot,Arkansas
    If the game wardens say they are, well thats ok with me!! ;) ;) :D
     
  13. derbycitycatman

    derbycitycatman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,296
    State:
    Kentucky
    Theres not much primitive about the inline muzzleloaders of today, but the basic concept is still the same. You load the charge and bullet through the muzzle. Same thing with compounds being considered primitive compared to recurves. How many people use 4wheelers during primitive weapons season? Shouldnt they have to use a horse. Its all how you want to describe primitive.
     
  14. quackkillsduxs

    quackkillsduxs New Member

    Messages:
    98
    State:
    madison mississippi
    i dont know about other states but in mississippi now you can shoot any rifle that breaks down like a 45-70 during primitive weapon season
     
  15. Whistler

    Whistler Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,084
    State:
    TN
    How many of you have second shot chances with your muzzleloaders? When was the last time you loaded your favorite hunting rifle from the barrel instead of with a cartridge. Yep, I'd say they're still somewhat primitive. Not in the true spirit of the word primitive, but the fact is you still better be right on the money with a muzzleloader or you'll have a wounded animal out there somewhere. To me it's quite a lot like archery. I'm not an archery hunter, but there are recurves, compound bows, etc. I mean some of those newer bows are much more deadly in the right hands at far greater distances than what was used in true primitive times. Mechanical broadheads, carbon arrows, lit up sights, etc. In the same way these are true primitive weapons, the muzzleloader is as well in my opinion. I agree that today's break open or bolt action muzzleloader isn't a primitive weapon in the same sense that my Hawken is, but then again it's far more primitive than my Ruger MKII .270 is. For what it's worth, that's my opinion.
     
  16. centralcalcat

    centralcalcat New Member

    Messages:
    1,163
    State:
    Marion, TX
    I agree Whistler.

    -Brian
     
  17. quackkillsduxs

    quackkillsduxs New Member

    Messages:
    98
    State:
    madison mississippi
    i just want yal to know that im not against the new modern day muzzleloader i was just wandering what yals thoughts were on it
     
  18. catfishcentral

    catfishcentral New Member

    Messages:
    1,497
    State:
    OK
    I've used both sidelocks with iron sights and inlines with scopes both kill very well. I personally wouldn't shoot a deer more than 70 yards with a sidelock but I wouldn't think twice at taking a deer at 150 yards with a inline and a scope. Personally for me I want to feel very confindate that when I shoot I'll make a good double lung shot and drop the deer in it's tracks. I have made a donation before to the "coyote restoration fund" by taking too long of a shot with a sidelock. It's all personal preference like bows...compounds,recurve, longbow. Many people want the extra challenge and go more primative, inline to sidelock, compound to recurve. The more primative a weapon is the more things can go wrong. I can't fault anyone who just want's a weapon that they feel confindate that can make good shot.
     
  19. THE FISH WHISPER'ER

    THE FISH WHISPER'ER New Member

    Messages:
    95
    State:
    waynesville ,IL
    i naild one down at about 140 yards in a heavy snow with my omega just like you droped an anvil on his head would not have got that job done with my hawken (i have tried) and good point about the compound and the recurve bows i dont think that i would ever go back to a recurve even if they offerd a special season also i prefer my artic cat to a horse any day they eat less and smell better
     
  20. center12

    center12 New Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    State:
    KS
    When I had my TC Encore I never found a combo the shot well with 150gr. pellets.............an XTP over 90gr of loose Perodex was another story :) . Since we can't use scopes I really can't see where an inline would be of much advantage, still thinking though..........handled a few Omega's at Cabela's and liked the way they handled.