Dilemma Vs Decision (his and mine)

Discussion in 'General Conversation' started by postbeetle, Nov 5, 2007.

  1. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

    Messages:
    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    Gonna ask a little advise here, maybe not important to some but it will be a decision I will have to make the first week of November.

    The screwy time change makes our chores, what few we have, more complicated, not work wise but timing and darkness the first day was confusing for our livestock. We have dogs on medication programs, the guineas roosting now where they would have been another hour before coming in, the horse further out in the pasture, the cats already out hunting for the night and me an hour behind with supper.

    We are getting ready to head for the barn, the hour difference making it getting dark fast. I have the habit of always looking around, near and far just checking things out. In the horse pasture to the east I see a large buck, head down going south, to my right. A big buck, large bodied and a 10 pointer. He is out a little less than a hundred yards. His nose down I figure he's on a doe trail, rut here in full force.. Suddenly he stops, turns around and heads north, head to the ground but shaking his rack. He goes 30-40 feet and turns around and repeats what he did before. Curious I walk out another 20 yards. The line of sight change shows me what is going on. Now visible to my right is a familiar doe I had seen all summer. She had fawned just east of my barn and raised her twins in sight of me. She would bring them up to our horses salt block and lot waterer throughout the summer. She had a particular schedule, especially during apple season. We have a number of apple trees and she would be bring those fawns up to eat apples in the early evening, before going out to graze. The fawns now run off, were usually a little further East of her out of sight. She was in heat, flagging, cavorting around and pretending to graze. That big buck watched her with a big grin on his face. She just teasing him.

    The bucks dilemma was to my left. A smaller buck, an 8 pointer with the largest throat patch I have ever seen was standing looking at me. A nice tall rack but not wide. The big boy didn't know whether to fight or go get dessert. The doe spots me and dances more to my right out of sight. The big boy following her and the second buck following them. That was nice I thought, don't see that very often.

    We got down to the barn, and there they were again, now around 75-80 yards out. The doe again spots me, but she is familiar with me and it is about where she raised her fawns so she doesn't spook. The second buck getting a little closer in. The big boy spots me for the first time. His dilemma has now increased considerably. A doe in full heat, a challenger and now a human. He about goes nuts. First a dash toward the doe, then a dash toward the 2nd buck, then a dash toward me. He would come toward me, head and rack down, stop and stomp his foot. I heard him snort once, not an alarm snort, a snort that meant business. The first deer that I know that might have taken me if I walked toward him. Time is going by and she ambles more out of sight, he looks at me stomps one more time and both of them follow her.

    Now, finally the question. First shotgun season here is the first week of December. I don't kill bucks and these bucks were the 3rd ones I had seen that day. The first in the morning bigger than these two. That doe will be out there 75 yards from my barn door that morning. She will now have been bred to that nicey-nicey buck. Do I kill her, 75 yards from where I will hang and skin her or let her go knowing the genetics she is carrying and how good a mother she was. I could go out in the timber and knock another one down, but it will be more difficult this year because of some physical problems. The buck had his dilemma now I have a decision to make.

    Postbeetle
     
  2. gilmafam

    gilmafam Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,466
    State:
    California
    Go out.... back into the timber and get another one....forget the big rack... go for a younger buck.

    bayrunner ray
     

  3. JimmyJonny

    JimmyJonny Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,059
    State:
    sc
    John,

    I wish I knew more on hunting so I could help ya. My uneducated guess would be to get the younger one also. I myself wouldn't kill anything around my home just because I would rather enjoy them roaming around my land. On the other hand if to many bucks around isn't a good thing then ya gotta do what's best.
    I've been learning how to track deer since last season, learning from some of the best hunters I know. I enjoy it a lot and I hope to be hunting next bow season. I'm not really interested in guns honestly but I'm attracted to being really close to the deer for the kill.

    PS, if ya ever get a pic of the fawns post it up for me, my kids would just love it. Sorry I'm no help John....but I'm learning ; )
     
  4. BIG GEORGE

    BIG GEORGE New Member

    Messages:
    10,362
    State:
    JOISY
    Why not get all 3 of em together and let them work out thier problems over some tea. Or capture the doe and let both bucks have thier way with her. Ya can tell I'm from Joisey. LOL! I know just about as much about huntin as I do fishin. LOL!
     
  5. catfish kenny

    catfish kenny New Member

    Messages:
    6,064
    State:
    Iowa
    John...why do you have to scramble my brain on such an important issue first thing monday morning? I have had a rough weekend.If this is a indication of what my week is gonna be like you have me scratchin my bald head....hhmmmmmmm.....I am gonna do a wee bit of assuming and I know I should not assume anything with you but I prety much see you getting the doe or young buck,you dont want a trophy you want to eat....ofcourse have to admitt myself you being the complex individual you are ....(.sensitive/caring... MYself I'd want the doe but you have learned her habbits fed her and watched her nurture her so hanging her up a eye shot from where she raised her youngen to see might set you off and then you will need more meds John so you have to put this into the big picture ...and I am concerned for your well being but it is good to adress such matters of importance if you see them coming ,I am very proud of you fer this so take her man she is gonna be the best eatin in my minds eye and let bambi grow fer next year.Dont feel bad and every tender morsil ....savor the flavor and eat well over the winter.........YOU GET TWO TAGS THEN YA CAN GET THE LILL BUCK too...but big rack aint gonna be the best eatin and back to assuming your hunting for food? and you are as smart as I think you are already know witch one yer gonna get don't you:after_boom:
     
  6. Dreadnaught

    Dreadnaught New Member

    Messages:
    5,444
    State:
    Henderson,Ky
    You said,
    "Now visible to my right is a familiar doe I had seen all summer. She had fawned just east of my barn and raised her twins in sight of me. She would bring them up to our horses salt block and lot waterer throughout the summer. She had a particular schedule, especially during apple season. We have a number of apple trees and she would be bring those fawns up to eat apples in the early evening, before going out to graze."

    In my oppinion, she is more like a pet. You apperently like watching her raise her young so, why mess that up by killing her if she is not being destructive.

    I would say that the thick necked buck was the older of the two and one of them would be on the menu, LOL!!!
     
  7. baitchunker

    baitchunker New Member

    Messages:
    1,689
    State:
    alabama
    john:

    if you are so hard up for meat, that you are considering killing your pet, that you believe to be cooking a monster buck of the future, send me your address and i will send you some.

    if its not the meat you are after, but the experience, then ride your lil golfcart another few hundred yards from the house and enjoy nature. if a doe walks out great, if not... great. either way you will be honoring the animals, as well as yourself.

    i dont fully understand the physical problems associated with getting older. but i dont think compromising your obvious feelings will quench any thirst you have. just my very humble thoughts... you need a camera mounted to your shotgun.
     
  8. anchorpuller

    anchorpuller New Member

    Messages:
    857
    State:
    North Caro
    Here I go piping into something I know nothing of.

    What I read is that 1- Yer gonna Kill Bambi's Momma or 2- Yer gonna let her live

    There is a commercial on TV here about wildfires. It features Bambi running up to his mother saying "What are we gonna do today?" in a little child voice.


    I can tell you this. My Grandpa loved fishing and hunting. Did it all of his life. He liked to hunt dear with a bow and arrow. I'm not talking this fancy modern stuff. I'm talking the old kind. I pulled many an arrow out of this big ole block of foam in the backyard when he was practicing. He did that a lot more than he got to hunt. He wasn't able to walk by the time I was old enough to help him. He was in a wheelchair with bad hips and heart problems too severe to withstand surgery.
    I've got a picture somewhere of the last doe he got. It was with the help of his friends that he was able to get to a "blind" they made for him in the woods. Here, it's some fourty years later. I remember his enjoyment and pride that day.

    Good luck in your dilemma.
     
  9. SSgt Fishslayer

    SSgt Fishslayer New Member

    Messages:
    1,241
    State:
    south carolina
    i say kill the eight point. i wouldnt kill the 10 pointer cause he would be a better ate for the doe and make better offspring in my eyes. or you could go out in the timber and kill another doe if you like, but then you run the risk of killing on of the babies that was raised on your property. thats a good question though john.
     
  10. bluejay

    bluejay Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,493
    State:
    Napoleon, Mo.
    If I were you and did not care for killing a buck that would solve half (or 2/3s of your problem. Now for the other 1/3. I would jump in that golf cart as baitchunker said for another doe away from the barn. That one near the barn is part of your meds. This I know from my own experiences. Good luck.
     
  11. Arkansascatman777

    Arkansascatman777 New Member

    Messages:
    7,782
    State:
    AR
    John, I love to deer hunt and to me this is a no brainer. I have does that hang around the house and watching them all year it is a lot more enjoyment for me than the little bit of meat you would get from her. I would pop the biggest buck in the bunch without hesitation but since you want a doe get on that souped up golf cart and look for a doe you haven't seen.
     
  12. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

    Messages:
    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    Shouldn't make any difference in my decision but another incidence with this doe.

    All replies are as I expected from you folks, from Bluejays "Part of my Meds", Triple 7's "Enjoyment for me", Sgt's "killing the babies raised on your farm", Anchorsaweigh "your gonna kill Bambi's Momma", JD's "considering to kill your pet", Dreadnaught's "she is more like a pet", Kenny's "learned her habits, watched her nurture", Train Wrecks "capture the doe and let both bucks have their way with her". LOL (gotta love ya George) Jimmy "I myself wouldn't kill anything around my home". Gilmafam "go back into the timber and kill another one". Thanks folks

    One day late August, our Dog Days here and it hadn't rained in a spell. Things were getting dry. I was in the barn putzing around and a thunderstorm was finally coming. Not a dangerous one but one that was going to give us some badly needed rain and break from the heat. It started raining heavily, and I looked out into the horse pasture East of the barn. That doe had brought those two fawns out and she stood and watched them play in the rain like a couple of kids under a fire hydrant.

    You have all seen young animals happy and playing. These fawns were like young lamb or goat kids. Jump in the air, chase each other, or just start running around in circles together. If they got too far away they would come running back to Momma and then start again. This went on for fifteen minutes until the rain stopped. She turned around and headed back into the woods and they followed reluctantly.

    I ain't gonna kill her.

    John.
     
  13. bootshowl

    bootshowl New Member

    Messages:
    2,288
    State:
    Indiana, J
    John it must be hell going out of a day an having something swooping, snorting, charging or jumping up out the water at ya.......please try an maintain.
    It's an tough job, but somebody's got ta do it.

    :big_smile:
     
  14. jim

    jim New Member

    Messages:
    2,579
    State:
    Jacksonville NC
    John as I understand your original dilemma it was whether to harvest the doe if she were carrying from the big buck.Game and fish folks pretty much took care of that years ago when only bucks were harvested.The herds grew disproportionate because of that policy and one of the reasons for bucks only in the old days was hunters were reluctant to shoot pregnant does.The bucks,being males and since all males are dogs according to popularly female theory,arent monogamous!!!!!!!:big_smile:He has serviced every female he can in his normal range.So there are plenty of genetic possibilities out there even if you harvest one.It took a long time to bring about doe hunting,but normally there is a definite buck/doe ratio in every herd and the does outnumber bucks 3-1 for the most part.Now I have hunted all over the world for lots of species but as I get older I am reluctant to kill anything because as I see my life winding down, I see how precious it is to all living things.Perhaps that is the final step of a hunter or fishermans maturation.Conservationist.I do not have the slightest problem with others harvesting or hunting because without some form of harvest the herds would be in trouble.I just dont hunt much anymore and really enjoy watching the deer in my back yard.I dont have a problem with them being harvested by someone else.Now if you hunt to eat then I wouldnt worry about shooting that doe unless she has become your pet as others have stated.Her offspring will be wandering your property in the future and they will be just as good at raising their young.:big_smile:
     
  15. BLKCLOUD

    BLKCLOUD New Member

    Messages:
    378
    State:
    Pulaski Tn
    I guess i'm getting soft, but I just cant kill my pet does, nor can I shoot one with a little one tagging along..:wink: Go for the buck and buy a meat tenderizer..!!
     
  16. kat in the hat

    kat in the hat New Member

    Messages:
    4,875
    State:
    Missouri
    My opinion, if you are old, crippled, and hungry...shoot a deer within close proximity to where it will be processed. If not so hungry, arm yourself with a camera, and shoot them with film, or memory card, and post them for us to admire.

    I will buy one tag this year. Sometimes, I have second thoughts on shooting a deer sometimes, due to laziness. I'm taking a camera this year, but am also bent on shooting one for the freezer. I don't have any pet deer, I only have 2 days in my schedule to hunt, so I won't be too picky. Any 8 pointer, or bigger is fair game, as well as a mature doe. I'll let the little ones walk, as I have done in the past, with the exception of my first doe. Small, but very tasty.
     
  17. poisonpits

    poisonpits Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    9,689
    State:
    arkansas
    Name:
    johnnie
    john your problem is an easy one if you dont want the younger buck and cant kill the doe take one of the yearlins.they are a lot better eating and lots easier to clean.
     
  18. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

    Messages:
    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    I know I won't draw down on her Pits, she is easy to recognize. Guess I'll have to take the Daniel Boone route. Put a windscreen around my Ranger 4x4 fliver, figure out a way to keep my beer and feet warm with some kind of heater, set on the trail and get one. Maybe I could put the pictures and story in some magazine. Maybe Luke Clayton would ride along. I don't think he would go with me when I tell my poaching story, ethics and all that.