Did You Receive This Letter? READ THIS...

Discussion in 'LOCAL NORTH CAROLINA TALK' started by Catgirl, Apr 15, 2007.

  1. Catgirl

    Catgirl New Member

    Messages:
    13,546
    from the State of NC, Office of the Governor (dated March 16, 2007)

    Dear Sports Enthusiast:

    Today I received a letter the North Carolina Wildlife Resources Commission sent to our members of Congress. It expresses grave concerns over the U.S. Navy's proposed use of a highly toxic pesticide to control the delicate waterfowl near the Beaufort-Washington county line where the Navy plans an outlying landing field (OLF). I want to make sure you are aware of this threat to our state's fragile and priceless natural heritage. As you may be aware, the Navy is starting a series of public hearings next week on this matter across Eastern North Carolina.

    In its draft environmental impact statement concerning locating the outlying landing field near the Pocosin Lake National Wildlife Refuge and Lake Mattamuskeet, the Navy says it plans to use the pesticide Avitrol, among other things, to control the bird population in the area. North Carolina's laws ban the used of this chemical for such purposes. 'Under no circumstances should this chemical be used in proximity to tundra swans, snow geese or any other migratory waterfowl,' said Wes Seegars, chairman of the state Wildlife Resources Commission, in his letter to our congressional delegation.

    This deadly chemical, which is mixed with the birds' food, causes them to give out distress calls, flap about, fly in erratic patterns and die. Humans who come in contact with the chemical or in contact with birds who have ingested it can become seriously ill with nausea, dizziness, excessive perspiration, difficulty breathing and tremors.

    It is important to note that this cannot be characterized as a local issue, the harm will not be limited to the area surrounding the OLF. Because these migratory populations come from as far away as Alaska and western Canada, wide swaths of North America will be affected. In particular, many of these birds also winter in the areas surrounding the Chesapeake Bay in Virginia, Maryland and Delaware.

    The Navy is considering one of the most important waterfowl reserves in North America and the Atlantic Flyway for the OLF. Hundreds of thousands of waterfowl, many of them endangered species, migrate and feed there. I have been urging the Navy, with little success so far, to look at alternative sites in the state rather than this one near the Pocosin Lakes National Wildlife Refuge. These federal officials have not cooperated with the state to find an appropriate allternative North Carolina site for the training facility.

    The Navy's plan is not one for management of this prime feeding area. It is clearly a plan that would destroy the refuge.

    I urge you to share your concerns about this significant threat to one of the most significant wildlife areas in our state.

    With kindest regards, I remain

    Very truly yours,
    Mike Easley
    (Michael F. Easley, governor)
     
  2. catrod

    catrod New Member

    Messages:
    157
    State:
    North Carolina
    Yeah I got it, it came in my Wildlife In North Carolina magazine this month. I'm a lifetime member, it's a great magazine. I'm glad the gov. is letting all of us know where he stands. This problem with the Navy has been going on for some time now and I wish they would just move elsewhere!
     

  3. Ghost River

    Ghost River New Member

    Messages:
    466
    State:
    Carolina
    this might be the only thing I agree with Mr Easely on. But I have not understood from the beginning why the Navy wnats this area so bad for a practice field. There are plenty of other areas but they are after this one hard core.
     
  4. jim

    jim New Member

    Messages:
    2,579
    State:
    Jacksonville NC
    Well Princess like many things there is another side of the story.The original story from the AP states."Bird flocks at a proposed Navy landing strip in eastern NC COULD be controlled with fireworks,chemical repellents and dogs,say federal officials."If those tactics dont work the U.S.Dept of Agriculture recommends poison and guns to kill the birds.""The selective killing of wildlife is common to make airports safe,said Mike Begier and agriculture biologist who prepared the report."The Federal Aviation Administration,the USDA and other agencies endorse the technique he said.""Poisons would be used with certain species such as blackbirds,starlings,pigeons and gulls Begier said." Somehow or other this report has been corrupted into the Navy is going to poison all the waterfowl etc etc.Notice that the Navy has not said they would do any of the things in the report.BUT the Gov has corrupted the reports to cause panic and opposition with his letter.One of the local writes for NC SPortsman Magazine tried to cause the same reaction by stating that there is an elemntary school under the proposed flight path of the landing field.WOW I guess he never flew out of RDU where there are houses and hospitals,and nursing homes etcetc under the flight path.Those dont count I guess.I dont have a dog in this fight but I absolutely hate distorted reporting that tries to align support for or agin something.The truth is always somewhere in the middle often obscured by manufactured "Facts".:smile2:Nowhere in the report was the name of any specific pesticde mentioned either.
     
  5. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    I've always been against it.
    Those eastern counties are some of the poorest in the state and are the federal dumping grounds.
    First with the "red wolf" that biologists say isnt a red wolf and not native to the area.
    Second is that the federal government owns millions of acres in these counties as national wildlife refuges. The federal government doesnt pay property taxes so there is little income to derive from the federal government holding the land and the loss of valuable tax revenue.

    There are too many other low to not populated areas in this country that arent in the midst of the eastern flyway to practice carrier landings.
    I've spent alot of time in and around Mattamuskeet over the years. Its a shame the same federal government that has helped make the eastern flyway what it is and the other wildlife what it is in the area now want to destroy it.
    There is infighting within the ranks of the federal government over this matter to the point the federal wildlife officers and the biologists have been ordered silent on the matter.

    We already have a failed aero park in Kinston that the Air Force uses for touch and goes more then anything. This same existing facility could just as well serve the Super Hornet needs without a whole lot more distance involved.
    This has been suggested but quickly shot down (excuse the pun).
    It would be too much to ask that the Air Force and the Navy share anything.
     
  6. Timber Cat

    Timber Cat New Member

    Messages:
    203
    State:
    Penderlea NC
    Haven't seen that until now .Thanks for posting it up.
     
  7. Timber Cat

    Timber Cat New Member

    Messages:
    203
    State:
    Penderlea NC
    I have been following the landing strip issue on another site and have been keeping up with it in a few magazines.I personally think they could find other alternatives for the strip instead of wanting to put it in prime waterfowl country.Thanks again to all of you for posting all that info.
     
  8. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    I followed the red wolf deal and the amazing thing is that the federal government was so adamant about dumping those pests on eastern NC residents. Now they are so adamant about putting an OLF in their breeding grounds.
    But always its a federal government intrusion on those eastern NC residents in some form or other.
     
  9. rivercatsc

    rivercatsc New Member

    Messages:
    1,990
    State:
    South Caro
    I am from SC and this issue concerns us as much as yall. This area is the seconds largest waterfowl resting area on the eastern USA. It holds 90% of our diving duck population and around 50% of our puddle ducks. I think it would be ashame to destroy something that feeds so much of the east coasts waterfowl population. I sure DU and Delta Waterfowl are in this up to there elbows. Good luck and keep us informed.
     
  10. Tarheel Cat1

    Tarheel Cat1 New Member

    Messages:
    31
    State:
    North Carolina
    Thank you And I received mine.
     
  11. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    Ducks unlimited doesnt have enough pull to rock the cart on this and I doubt honestly they want much of it.

    This is lawyers, politicians, and concerned citizens from what I've seen.
     
  12. Ghost River

    Ghost River New Member

    Messages:
    466
    State:
    Carolina
    I know Delta Waterfowl has put out a atleast a few news releases but I don't know how deep they are in the fight other than that.
     
  13. SUNDROP

    SUNDROP New Member

    Messages:
    395
    State:
    Washington
    I had not seen this letter but I am a Beaufort Co resident and am well aware and actively protesting the "OLF" Here is a link to one of the latest protest videos. Please email,call,write anyone involved in this tragedy. I understand the Navy needs this practiceground but I feel they can do this without destroying our sensitive natural habitat. The balance of nature is falling farther and farther to the side of man... It is a true shame....

    http://www.youtube.com/filmsouth
     
  14. jim

    jim New Member

    Messages:
    2,579
    State:
    Jacksonville NC
    Their is an interesting article in the Raleigh news and Observer by Rick Martinez.Essentially he says that geese have become a problem in the Triangle because they crap 30 times a day and residents are getting upset.More and More geese are NOT migrating south because they stop where they can find open water and food.(This was actually a problem that surfaced in the 70s as the USFWS established Refuges that short stopped annual migrations much to the consternation of hunters)To solve this crappy problem Raleigh is looking at ways to solve it including using dogs to chase geese,stopping the feeding of them by humans and GASP even shooting them if necessary.HMMMMn,using dogs,reducing the food supply and shooting them ,where have I heard that before,WHY yes it is ,some of the same things the Navy is proposing for the OLF.Marinez points out that OLF opponents characterize the Navys proposals as barbaric,yet say nothing when its done to reduce poop or for airport safety.Go figure.One thing that many don't know is that there are currently many high speed/low level routes used by fighter and bomber aircraft in the area of the refuge already for aircraft to access the Dare county bombing ranges.There hasn't been any problem of aircraft/bird strikes or any migration alterations of the refuge birds,depite daily low level overflights.It is very easy to cause a panic by mis representing the facts like screaming there is an elementary school under the flight path.There is nothing wrong with taking a position one way or the other but the key word is informed position.:big_smile:
     
  15. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    Martinez fails to say the geese in Raleigh are Canadians (rats with wings).
    I wonder if Martinez has spent much time down east in the flyway.
    I have and seen the sky just about blacked out by ducks .
    Ever seen a swan?
    Most people that havent had the pleasure to get up close to a swan dead or alive have no idea how big they are. The one I have to mount has a
    7' wingspan. Thats a big duck. I just have to find a wall big enough to put it on.

    I live in military air controlled space. The entire eastern NC region is military controlled air space. We've got the F-15's and tankers out of Seymour Johnson over us 5 days a week weather permitting. Some of this is very low level. Its loud, its dangerous, and they do crash even without ducks.
    one crashed practically in my backyard a few years ago.
    Its also necessary and I dont have a problem with it. I pretty much have a free airshow 5 days a week. I see what alot of people have to travel and pay to see.
    If the Super Hornets need to practice carrier landings which they already are doing outside of NC we already have the facility and its not in the middle of a couple of thousand swans, 1000's of teal, dodapple, mallards, wood ducks, etc and our beloved Red wolves that were so kindly dumped on us just like the Navy wants to dump the Super Hornet on us too.

    Use the existing facility.

    There comes a point when enough is enough and that point is miles back yonder somewhere. That is some of the most pristine land left in NC and the wildlife ranks right up there with the land.
    That part of the state hasnt benefited from the federal government like Fayetteville, Jacksonville, or Goldsboro economically and the OLF isnt going to change that economic status through a basicly unmanned site and no additional tax base. In fact they will lose quite a bit of tax base with 30,000 MORE acres going to the government from the private sector.
    The feds dont pay property tax.

    The fact of why the Navy wants the OLF where it does?
    The people of Virginia are fed up with the noise and we're supposed to keep our mouth shut and bow down to their wants.

    Maybe the Navy should have had their OLFs before they awarded the contract for the Super Hornet. put 10 of these planes at Merimar and let them practice out there. Area 51 is abandoned. Put them out there.
    Seymour Johnson is on the closure list. Put them there.

    NC will carry this fight to the Supreme Court like they did with the red wolf.
    I dont think they'll bow down to the dirty pool base closure threats.
    Lejeune or Bragg aint going nowhere. Too much in the ground.

    The Navy has already been busted trying to fool biologists and politicians by low level small plane flights to herd ducks out of the area on the morning of the delegation's arrival. They got caught redhanded thinking those "dumb hicks" out there dont know how to talk.
    The courts acted on it immediately too.
    How many base closing has there been in the last 15 years? Use those airfields. The ground is already so contaminated at those existing sites the feds cant afford to clean them up and put them back into private hands. Use them.
     
  16. Ghost River

    Ghost River New Member

    Messages:
    466
    State:
    Carolina

    The Canada geese you are talking about that have become a problem at golf courses and soccer field around the state are not the same birds that use the Atlantic flyway. They are RESIDENT GEESE. They do not migrate any further than the back and forth from the golf course to the city park. To lose these birds would have no effect on the population of migrating birds. Waterfowlers like myself call them "sky carp". For Mr. Martinez to compare them to the waterfowl in the Atlantic Flyway is definitly mis-information whether he is just ignorant or malicously lying.
    Now I don't know why the Navy is so set on this area but by almost all accounts I have heard it is not a good area and was poorly concieved. Now they are just stretching the arms out and crying "we're the military and we want it" like my 2 year old does. There have been millions of dollars (both public and private) and millions of man hours spent studying and creating habitat for these birds. Humans almost drove these species to extinction in the early part of the last century now with the hard work of conservation groups across all of North America they have made and are still making a comback. And frankly I have much more respect for them and the groups that revived them than I do for the Navys practice field that they wnat for their new toys.
    It all sounds like a bad idea to me and i think they should move it somewere else. But i'm just one taxpayer.
     
  17. jim

    jim New Member

    Messages:
    2,579
    State:
    Jacksonville NC
    I am totally amazed that Canadian Geese are "Sky carp " and "Rats with wings".Do you think those geese are a special sub set of the population that have been bred to be resident geese?They all migrated at one time which was one of the points of the article.They stop when they find adequate food and open water.Period.If you go back and research the Federal Refuge program you will find that the refuges actually had drastic effect on the flyways by short stopping traditional migration patterns.This caused a huge outcry by the hunters in the southern states that werent seeing ducks and geese as they had in the past.The Swans and geese that stay at Pocosin I guess are sky carp because they are staying on the refuge and not migrating either.Man has altered the migration patterns of the traditional flyways by contnuing to build juicy golf courses with lakes and ponds.Cemetaries also.In point of fact Mattamuskeet, once a thriving center of waterfowl hunting suffered from the short stopping of waterfowl on all the refuges in Maryland.The FEDS dont pay property tax may be true in some cases ,depends on the deal they made to aquire the land.What the FEDS do pay is 4.3 billion dollars into the NC economy because all those feds you profess to love in the form of soldiers ,sailors ,marines and coast guardsmen DO pay property taxes,and state taxes and gasoline taxes and sales taxes.They buy homes, cars ,boats and fishing licenses.So that is hardly a fair representation of what the feds pay.I don't have a position on the OLF,working for the USMC and being retired Army doesn't align me with the NAvy on this.The Quid Pro Quo for taking the OLF was having the Navy station additional squadrons at Cherry Point which would mean more homes sold, more jobs because most of the maint is contracted and more money in the tax base of the local cities.I would also point out that when the Navy offered, many of the owners of this "pristine" non productive farmland were eager to sell and did.Personally I think that moving it anywhere just because the people of Virginia Beach got tired of the noise stinks.I also agree the Seymour would be a good place if it closes.The main point is BOTH sides are running around screaming the sky is falling and I dont think there is one bit of factual eveidence that can be offered as to the effect the OLF would have if any.Since the species of geese and swans that use the refuge, migrate, thus eliminating them from the "rats with wings" or "SKY CARP" categories they wouldnt even be on the refuge for most of the year.A fact both sides have over looked so far. I find it amazing the "resident" sub species manage to live in the hustle and bustle of our major cities and they aren't bothered a bit by the noise or all those airplanes at the local airport.Of course there may be more subspecies than we know because the 40 geese and 20 odd ducks on the pond of my local cemetary obviously prefer that type of peace and quiet and there poop keeps the grass verdant and green.:smile2: I only follow this because of the stridency of both sides in pointing fingers at each other.Reminds me of the discussions on here about CPR.:lol:
     
  18. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    The problem Jim like all the other federal holdings in those few counties where the OLF wants to be is that nothing provides a tax base.
    Sure, the OLF out there may increase revenues for Havelock but not where the OLF is.
    The people out there particulary in Hyde county which is also the poorest county in the state have been run over for years. Enough is enough. Put the thing in downtown Raleigh.
     
  19. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    Jim, its the whole federal metality.
    NC went to war over the federal govenrment dumping the red wolf here or atleast what they call a red wolf.
    They got dumped on big time.
    The federal government was willing to fight it all the way to the supreme court until they won.

    Now where is that same federal government when the Navy wants to screw around with their beloved "red"wolves?
    I cant shoot one of the varmints but the Navy can do whatever it takes to them to make sure they dont interfere with with the Super Hornet OLF?
    It's insanity.
     
  20. Ghost River

    Ghost River New Member

    Messages:
    466
    State:
    Carolina
    I wil not get into this specific refuge but the point I am making is for Mr. Martinez try to compare migrating waterfowl in the refuge to the canada geese we commonly see at city parks and local ballfields is like comparing farmfraised turkeys to the wild turkeys in the woods. Other than apperance they have little in common. The vaste majority of current research show that you are incorrect in your assertion that these geese migrated down and refused to leave. It is a common mistake. Most of these resident geese never leave a 20 mile radius from were they were born. They are, indeed, a sub species, atleast as behavior goes. You will not find one of these birds wearing a leg band.

    Now the outcry from the southern states of short stopping didn't have as much to do with the fact that there are refuges along the way as much as they were being loaded with corn to prevent the birds from leaving these areas in search of feeding grounds further south, where hunters were eagerly awaiting them. Ducks Unlimited was one of these groups and it cuased a pretty big backlash from their supporters. This lead to the strengthening in of Delta Waterfowl as a conservation group set on raising the number of waterfowl across North America through other management practices.