Deck Repairs

Discussion in 'Boat Repair Help' started by kccats, May 4, 2006.

  1. kccats

    kccats New Member

    Messages:
    634
    State:
    Olathe, Kansas
    Ok guys...
    First off.... heres a side view of my new old boat.

    Now, heres ONE of the problems with the boat.
    It say for several years. The drain holes got plugged up and water filled under the deck and sat there, rotting the wood from the bottom up.

    I removed the frame and trap door for the ski stow area and below you will find the links to what it looks like now.

    I am thinking that I can just carefully cut it an inch to either side of where the side walls are, put in a couple of inserts made from marine grade plywood on each end, screw it down and cut out the new opening for the frame and trap door and cover it all with new fiberglass material then recarpet.

    Will that work????
    If not, what SHOULD I do for a permanate fix?
    The ultimate goal here is to restore this boat back to very good condition so I can sell it for a down payment on a real cat boat.
     
  2. copycat

    copycat New Member

    Messages:
    1,841
    State:
    New Jersey
    The floor looks badly rotted. I would remove all the rot that you can and carfully fit and fiberglass new wood in to place. I once replaced an entire floor in a 19 foot center console and it came out very well, but was alot of work.
     

  3. catseeman

    catseeman New Member

    Messages:
    1,189
    State:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    I redid my boat 3years ago. Iremoved everything down to the styrofoam in bottom. built a tent out of tarp over the boat ,then sat electric fans to dry out the foam. it took about a week of drying. but the weight reduction from the water loss was worth it. I used 1/2" cdx coated both sides with clear polyurethane to seal plywood. did the same for the decks. just let it dry betwween trips if wet. be carefull with screws n saws. holes are easy to make but not so easy to fix. good luck if i can answer questions PM me.
    good luck, lenny
     
  4. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    KC, I imagine the boat experts will be along pretty soon and tell you what you have to do. Think it's like cancer. You have to cut out every infected part. You probably need to open the deck all the way down to the stringers on the bottom of the boat. It's not going to help to put a solid deck in if the stringers are rotten. They are the strength of the hull. Once the foam becomes water logged, I don't believe it is any good. So, it will probably need to be replaced, esp. if you'll entertain women and children aboard. You have a lot of work ahead of you, but the only way to get it done is to get it started and work on it. You'll have a better boat if you take your time and do the repairs right the first time.

    Oooooo, I just noticed, this is my 500th. I'm catching up to DH. lol
     
  5. bigflathunter

    bigflathunter New Member

    Messages:
    90
    State:
    Lawrence, KS
    Chris,

    Good luck with your project. That is extremely similar to what I am nearing completion on. That rotten plywood is a major pain, and the water logged foam just needs to be tossed. Basically your rebuild will be not very basic. It will require commitment to buying high quality materials that probably are not available locally.

    All of the rotten wood needs to be removed. Especially if there is rotten wood inside the fiberglass around the stringers. That will be quite a pain if you have to do it.

    After the wood is out you have to figure out how to lay out the boat when rebuilding it, if you want to change anything.

    All wood surfaces that you put in the boat need to be completely saturated and coated with a quality marine grade epoxy resin. The brand I use (system three) runs about $65 per gallon. On my entire rebuild I have used over 3 gallons (the ratio is 2 parts resin to 1 part hardener) so I've used two gallons resin and one gallon hardener. I'm starting in on my next gallon jug of resin and a new jug of hardener. I'll probably have about 4 gallons total invested.

    If you use polyurethane resin, it will delaminate from the wood and the boat will eventually rot again. That's why the boat rotted the first time. The price makes it tempting, though, but it's only cheap in the short run. Epoxy is 99.99% waterproof; the bilge could be full of water for a long long time before the plywood will even get wet. If you do careful work, the bilge will never get wet, because there will be no way for water to get there with the entire floor sealed around the edge with epoxy putty.

    Marine grade plywood is not rot proof. All "marine grade" means is that there is a very low void content in the layers so it is structurally sound. Your average piece of sheathing has various spaces between the layers, creating weak spots not suitable for highly structural pieces. If left in a moist environment, both will rot. Marine ply is also prettier and smoother, making for a better bond to your fiberglass with less fairing (smoothing).

    Keep in mind the transom may be rotten, too.

    None of this will make for a cheap or easy repair if you do it the way it should be done to yield the quality of boat that you would like to sell when finished. Depending on what all needs replaced, your out of pocket could range anywhere from $300 to $600 or even more. I have about $700 in mine over the last 15 months including new stringers, transom, and floor; I also built a custom front deck with livewell, rod locker, battery locker, and storage for whatever will fit in the leftover space. I've purchased two 3 gallon epoxy kits, various fillers, 50 yards of biaxial fiberglass tape, ten yards of fiberglass cloth, various squeegies, brushes, mixing pots, latex gloves, and the plywood to make it all happen. Not to mention a ton of sweat equity.

    Mark J knows even more than me and will probably chime in.

    You'll have fun with it if you enjoy the process.
     
  6. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    Aaron, you covered it.
    My only concern would be the stringers. More times then not if you have a rot problem with the floor especially stemming from standing water you can expect stringer rot too.
    Boat manufacturers have a nasty habit of screwing the floor to the stringers.
    All that practice does is create a "funnel" straight into the wood of the stringer when whatever wood sealing method used deteriorates or is compromised.

    The overall condition of the boat such as the gel coat and how weathered it is along with a thorough survey of the transom would dictate if it was worth messing with or just stripping the hull of the motor and all the rigging and walk away with a valuable lesson learned.
    Without question knowing the expense it costs to FIX a boat I wouldn't touch it if my intentions were in selling it. I would sell as is.

    Boats are alot like what kids do to cars these days.
    They take a 1000 dollar car, put another 1000 in some aftermarket ground effects and dump in 3 grand worth of audio equipment. They still have a 1000 dollar car with an even smaller chance of selling because of the smaller market they created with their modifications.

    I know what I would do but yall have heard this before.
    I'd strip it and take the 1500 I would have dumped into fixing it and have a stack of quality marine ply, a roll of glass and 8 gallons of epoxy sitting in the driveway. There would be a brend new 18 footer sitting in the driveway in about 9 months built to my liking and tailored around the way I fish.
    If you can fix a boat you can definately build one with the modern materials and engineering of today. It sounds like a daunting task but the hardest part of the process is putting your sweat equity into it. The rest is the easy part.
     
  7. bmaultbay

    bmaultbay New Member

    Messages:
    498
    State:
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    just a thought, why not replace the floor with aluminum, and rhino line instead of carpet. fiberglass, with aluminum floor, it will never have to be repaired again, or carpet replaced.
     
  8. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    In most cases the sole in a boat is an integral part of the structure of the hull. They should be welded together with glass.
    You could switch to aluminum but you would would never be able to mate the different materials together besides awitching to aluminum would be just as costly and heavier.
    More supporting structure would have to be added to support the floor without flex.

    When tinkering on boats the most important thing to keep in mind always is that boats like any other vehicle are engineered products.
    They are engineered for strength and efficiency by building as light as possible for the material used and are engineered for the various forces exerted on them like lateral loads and shear loads. Alot of people dont realize the enourmous loads placed on different parts of boat hulls.
    You wouldnt cut the A post out of your car and drive down a washboard road at 40 MPH and not expect something not to give nor would you knock out a load bearing wall in your house to make your living room bigger without careful consideration of how you are going to support the weight of the roof.

    I'e seen not only the hull of a boat cracked but the sole also in front of a center console. The cause was the forces exerted by the properly sized motor hanging on the stern. Obviously the engineering was lacking somewhat on this boat.

    We often talk about the wood in boats rotting but fiberglass rots too.
    Polyester resin and fiberglass aren't even close to being waterproof.
    When the gel coat on a fiberglass boat is compromised the glass strands are like thousands of oil lamp wicks creating highways and side roads of water travel throught the glass hull.
    As water passes through the glass it usually is noticeable by the black gunk that appears on the interior of the hull. Much harder to repair and more expensive. It can take literally months to get the glass dried out before an attempt at repair can be made. Atleast with wood you can cut out the damage and repair it easier and cheaper if caught in time.
    Water damaged glass is more like an inoperable cancer because of the wicking. The damage isnt usually concentrated in one small area but rather large areas will suffer delamination.
     
  9. kccats

    kccats New Member

    Messages:
    634
    State:
    Olathe, Kansas
    Guys,

    The only wood on this boat is the deck, which is only about 5 X 6.
    The stringers are also fiberglass and there is no foam that I can find either.
    It appears from what I can tell that I can cut the wood back to on top of the stringer on each side, put in 2 center support pieces on each end and just install a section of plywood that is about 18 inchs X 6 ft.

    Cut out a new hole for the ski stow hatch, new fiberglass over the new wood over laping the old with the new and be good to go.

    Worse case would be to have to remove the entire deck.

    I don't think we have a bad design on the boat.
    Most boats are not ment to be left uncovered in the elements for 5 years like this boat was.
    It looks to me like this boat is in pretty darn good condition under the circumstances, but then I'm no expert.

    What I really need is someone with some experiance to take a look at it and let me know what needs to be done.
     
  10. trnsmsn

    trnsmsn New Member

    Messages:
    1,214
    State:
    Missouri Originally Now I
    Maybe Mark J. Can Help Me Out Here. My Friend Who Has Done Alot Of Boat Repairs For Me, Used Something That Looked Like Styrofoam Board, It Was Very Easy To Cut & Lightweight.

    Once He Put The Fiberglass On It,It Is Suppose To Be Stronger Than Wood, Waterproof & Definately Much Lighter.

    Could This Product Work For Him?:confused2: Elliot
     
  11. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    It sounds like something like Corcell or Divinycell. Nidacore would be my choice and looks much like heavy duty waffle boarded cardboard.
    Lighter then wood and is one of the rather newer space age materials materials being used in anything from a row boat to a yacht.
    The first attempt at using these materials by yacht builders was disastrous , completely driving some of them out of business from the lawsuits.
    Now they know how better to use the same materials with excellent results.
    The cost of using these products?

    Twice as much. It takes more fiberglass and epoxy to get the strength of a piece of foam up to that comparable to what a piece of plywood is.
    Here it all depends on how much you are willing to spend to save weight.

    Nidacore is different in that it can be bought in prefinished panels. 4x8 sheet with 18 oz glass and 1/2 inch thick- 220.00 plus shipping.
    That sounds extremely high priced but when you think about the cost of marine ply, epoxy , and glass not to mention the labor that 220 bucks a sheet for flooring material sounds more in line.
     
  12. trnsmsn

    trnsmsn New Member

    Messages:
    1,214
    State:
    Missouri Originally Now I
    Your A Good Man,Mark J.:wink: , I Just Got A Hold Of My Buddy And He Said It Was The DivinyCell That He Used On My Boat. I Can Tell By Reading Your Posts That You Are Very Knowledgeable & Experienced. If You Saw The Work That This Guy Can Do, You'd Give Him A Big Thumbs Up !!

    He Works for A Very Large Yacht Manufacturing Plant Here And Gets Lots Of "Scrap" From There. Now You Know That The Materials Cost Me ZERO, Hence I'm Ignorant To The Costs Of These Materials:eek:oooh: Elliot
     
  13. bigflathunter

    bigflathunter New Member

    Messages:
    90
    State:
    Lawrence, KS
    Chris, since you're so close, I'll be happy to stop by and take a look. My bet is the stringers only look like they're fiberglass, and that they're actually fiberglass mat completely covering the wooden stringer. But I could be wrong.

    Mark, which boat is it you're building now, and what have you already completed? I think I've decided on the GV15 for my first complete build - a 5" draft at 1500 lbs displacement for a 500 lb hull will leave me 1000 lbs for motor, persons and gear and should handle a river quite well, and with the mod v it wouldn't rattle my teeth out on a light chop at the lake. The GF18 would be nice for its size, but I'd prefer the mod V, and my working space is very limited.

    After that I have my eyes on the OB19; the C19 is prettier, but requires a lot more plywood for not a lot more boat.

    After completing this project, I realize how right you are that it would be easier to just scrap the hull and use the motor and trailer to haul something I built entirely myself; A complete GF16 ordering all the stuff from Bateau would only be about $900 + shipping, and I'd have a bigger boat.
     
  14. kccats

    kccats New Member

    Messages:
    634
    State:
    Olathe, Kansas
    OK, after looking around at other peoples boats on the BOC, I have decided that I am going to go ahead and keep this boat and just turn it into my catboat.
    It won't do me much good for the upper kaw, but it will do OK for the lower end and the MO as well an any lake.

    Thanks for the good advice guys.