Cup Drivers In Busch Races

Discussion in 'Wolfman's Nascar Pit Stop' started by Kittyhunter, Oct 16, 2005.

  1. Kittyhunter

    Kittyhunter New Member

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    State:
    Princeton, NC
    Anybody agree with me on this one? I think we can all agree that in Nascar racing, the pinnacle is Nextel Cup. It's the major leagues of Nascar. So why do they let cup drivers race in the busch races? I don't get it. They spend their careers trying to get to the majors, then continue to race with the minor leaguers. It's not fair to the Busch guys. Now if a driver wants to ease into the cup series and still drive in the Busch series the first year or two, that's fine. But, when they go full time cup racing, they shouldn't be allowed to race in the Busch series. If they can't make it in the big leagues and want to go back to Busch, that's fine too. But, not both. You don't see major league ball players playing in the minors do you? Anybody agree?
     
  2. s_self88

    s_self88 New Member

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    Shawnee, Kansas
    I don't think its fair. But Nascar probably does it because more fans will watch if their favorite driver is racing. It probably also helps ticket sales, to the busch races.
     

  3. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

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    I can race in the Busch series provided I have a Nascar license and the entry fee. Why should cup drivers be any different? They aren't racing under cup rules in a Busch race.
     
  4. ryang

    ryang Well-Known Member

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    Gary
    Good point Mark I never thought of it like that but dont they mostly race just to check out the Tracks?
     
  5. wolfman

    wolfman Well-Known Member

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    Walter Flack
    I dont agree with it either, but if the truth be known, the cup drivers use the Busch series races as a test session for the cup race. This allows them to gain more experience and a competitive edge so they can perform better on the next day during the cup race. Put yourself in their shoes,why not make a few extra bucks on Saturday and use what you have learned on Sunday.
     
  6. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

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    It's an open race series, If you can qualify you can run.
    We see Busch drivers racing cup races all the time for what?
    More times then not running an R&D car for a Cup team.
    I don't see anything wrong with drivers getting some seat time , especially with the number of test sessions they are allowed, the new format at some tracks where they have to run what they qualify with, and the fact that cup drivers cant run an entire season in Busch.
    How would you feel if Ken Schrader showed up at your local 3/8 mile track on Saturday night with a car?
    It doesnt mean he wins them, but I guarantee more effort is put into a car and driver when he does show up.

    I think it's good to expose these Busch drivers to some cup drivers along the way, if for nothing else to gain a little respect from the cup drivers and making a transition a little easier having raced with and against them.
     
  7. ohiocattracker

    ohiocattracker New Member

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    Yea i dont much like it i would rather see some Dirt or Ashpalt late model guys get some more of the rides in Busch.And i agree with self88 Nascar likes it because at certain tracks it draws fans to busch races like here in Kentucky at the Busch race few cup guys come and thats an extra 20000 fans lol.
     
  8. JERMSQUIRM

    JERMSQUIRM New Member

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    il-waynesv
    i really think it helps cup drivers getting ready for the cup event. i however do not agree with it. i hate seeing the top 10 busch race results with 9 of em being cup drivers.

    like jr. only wants to race the tall and daytona in busch cause he knows he'll win it. like shooting fish in a barrell. its fine but i just don't like it.
     
  9. capt.kirk

    capt.kirk Guest

    CUP DRIVERS IN A BUSCH RACE?
    mark j said it all,i have to agree with him.
    KIRK :cool:
     
  10. Kittyhunter

    Kittyhunter New Member

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    Princeton, NC
    I just think it's like letting high school kids play against middle school kids. What does a cup driver get out of it. Woohoo I beat a guy who isn't good enough yet to race in my division. I know they do it for practice, but it's not fair to the guys who bust their butts all season competing for a championship to have some cup driver come in for a couple of races and steal the show. If your gonna run cup, run cup, and let the busch guys run busch.
     
  11. Kittyhunter

    Kittyhunter New Member

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    291
    State:
    Princeton, NC
    I don't think it's right for the busch guys to run cup either unless they are headed into cup the following season full time. I said that in my original post. If they ease into it the first season, I'm ok with that. I was talking about full time cup drivers in busch cars. It ain't right.
     
  12. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

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    Since when is the Busch series the sanctioned Jr. Varsity of the Cup series?
    Not all of those Busch series guys want to go Cup racing.
    We are talking about two totally different series here that happen to fall under Nascar sanctions.
    Does this mean that Tony Stewart shouldnt be able to run the Indy 500 or that a World of Outlaws champion driver shouldnt sit in a Cup car (one has)?

    Look at the golfing world. Any number of PGA players also play in lesser tournaments across the country.

    Let's think about this thing for a minute. Exactly what advantage does a cup driver have in the Busch series?
    The cars are different weights and the engines are a different compression ratio for starters. These arent the same cars.
    How many top running Busch teams also are sisters to cup teams? Alot!
    I'm not seeing a big gap here in technology between cup drivers and Busch teams here. If anything, the Busch drivers should have the advantage being that they run these cars more then cup drivers do.
    Some of these cup drivers that run a partial Busch schedule do so out of their own pocket. Their efforts may and in alot of cases are alot less substantial then a full time Busch ride.

    You got plenty of Busch drivers capable of driving cup so dont put them down by saying that the Holy Grail of drivers, the cup driver is a better driver.
    There are plenty of cup drivers that can't make it in either series.

    Come to think of it, I can't remember the last time a cup driver won the cup while racing Busch the same year.
    If you go back through modern history you'll find that most cup champions won the cup only afer they quit or severly limited their Busch efforts.
    I have no doubt that is why Mark Martin has never won the cup.
     
  13. Kittyhunter

    Kittyhunter New Member

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    Name one Busch driver who does not have a goal of going cup. If there is one, it's because he already tried and failed. It's the process, you start out in Busch and move up to the cup if you get the chance. I'm not saying this is the rule, but it sure seems to be the normal process. If the cup drivers don't have an advantage over the Busch guys in a Busch race, how come 9 times out of 10, there are more cup guys in the top ten at the end of a Busch race?
     
  14. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

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    Randy Lajoi had plenty of offers. He never wanted to go to cup.

    There are some people that money can't buy. There are some people who forsake the big money for family.
    There are some people who do not want the commitment that Cup requires. Let's remember, Driving a race car is a very small part of a cup career. They have daily commitments that often require flying halfway across the country and back.
    You got all those sponsors to tend to and they pay good money and require a certain amount of a driver's time at the track in autograph booths or away from the track at board luncheons.
    I know at one time Buttwiper was wanting over 100 appearances a year from Dale Jr. Read Dale Jr's autobiography. You'll get just a taste of why there are those that dont want to go cup.

    Rusty Wallace is retiring. His main reason given for retiring is the schedule and it isn't getting any better.

    You tell me where the cup driver has the advantage in a Busch race. I've told you where he dont have the advantage.
     
  15. Kittyhunter

    Kittyhunter New Member

    Messages:
    291
    State:
    Princeton, NC


    Proof is in the results as I said, look how many cup drivers finish ahead of the Busch drivers on average. You can't deny that. I'm through debating with you on this, it seems you are a professional. In fact it seems that way with everything you post Mark. It doesn't matter what it is, Nascar, fishing line, boat hull design, bullets and firearms, etc., etc., etc. Most of us post what we think about something, you come back with what seems to be researched and heart felt evidence. You must be the smartest man I've ever seen.
     
  16. ryang

    ryang Well-Known Member

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    5,338
    State:
    Blacklick, Ohio
    Name:
    Gary
    Mark if you ask me Randy is an idiot for not wanting to go up the premier level, why start racing at all if all you want to do is excel in the 2nd place. Isnt this the same as Baseball players sent back down to AAA to hone thier skills (kinda off I know they are sent by the team and dont want to go there unless sent). My job is to answer phones for Insurance agents basicly telling them how to do thier job LOL I started this job with the ferver of anyone starting a new job now Ive been here 4 years I want to move on to a better job thats just human nature.

    Ill tell you where a CUP driver has an advantage $$$$$$ thats right the mooola tell me a car that is owned by DEI or Hendricks or one of the other biguns dont have an advantage over some scrub with enough money to just afford the car gas and whatever else that is needed. Im not saying its wrong but its not fair (yea yea I know Life aint fair LOL).

    Thats my story and Im sticking to it LOL
     
  17. capt.kirk

    capt.kirk Guest

    KITTY HUNTER
    glad to see you decided not to debate mark on raceing,he is very well schooled on that subject. :)
    KIRK
     
  18. screen

    screen New Member

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    State:
    Sterling, Illinois
    MarkJ - I think Schrader does run alot of small tracks -

    Nascar doesn't want to stop cup drivers for all the reasons stated above plus it fills seats at Busch races and that brings attention and that means MONEY!

    When I raced Funny Cars we loved the big boys for they made us better and we learned and the prize money and sponsors put money in us small guys pockets with better purses because the promoter got them there! No matter what type of racing it has become ALL about the MONEY! So guys like Kenny Wallace have become millionares where only ten years ago they would have had to get a part time job -

    Busch would not be the event it is today if it wasn't for the cup guys - an example of this is Winston West - same thing, cars, rules and all as Busch but they only get the cup drivers when they are out west - when they are there they get BIG fan turnout - My cousin races WW and he has the same expenses as the teams in Busch but only has half the purses except when the cup guys come out!
     
  19. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    Ryan, I know in the 2000 season when Mark Martin ruled the roost in Busch they did it with less equipment and technology in their cars. Their cars were heavy and lacked alot of the new fangled technology that other cars ran.
    Maybe thats why he was a consistent winner that year. They went with the tried and proven.

    Busch is it's own series of racing. People view it as second fiddle to Cup racing. I think thats the wrong view. It is it's own and stands on it's own no different the Busch north series or ARCA.
    Randy Lajoi is simply a man that has his own set of priorities in life.
    Those may be the wife and kids or seeing his grand parents grow old. Heck he may even love to fish more then twice a year.
    At any rate he is comfortable making the living he makes and the competition level in the Busch series. A man that knows what he wants whats and is best for him! Go figure that one out.

    Kitty, I throw my opinions out there just like any other member. I'm sorry if they are offending you or your intelligence. Other times I state facts. Boat building for example. I know it pretty well. I know the materials available and have used a big number of them over the years. I'm pretty dog gone effecient in knowing how a hull works and theory behind hull design and then translating that into where boat manufacturers do their creative marketing strategies to sell boats and not necesssarily the best boats. My aim in entering discussions on hulls and boat refurbishing topics is strictly on a basis to give options before buying or to TELL someone wont or will work.

    I'm not a halfa#@er when it comes to anything I do. There is no way I will sit here and tell someone the cheap way to fix anything. I will tell someone the right materials and probally the most expensive way up front cost wise to fix a boat. I dont want someone cussing me 3 years down the road when they have a water logged floor once again.
    I routinely direct people to numerous helpful websites that will back up my statements regarding boat building or repair.

    Since you live so close I will invite you over when I lay my next keel and just maybe you might want one of what I'm building and WE can build two at the same time using my shop and equipment plus the keg of beer that will stay in the refrigerator. I'd love to build two at once. I feel that I could produce 2 in about the same amount of time as 1. What I can gaurantee you is it would be the best boat you ever owned for size, effeciency in using and towing, and strength.
    Or if you don't happen to be in the market just come over for a beer or three, just dont complain if I hand you a sanding block or you go home with epoxy in your hair.

    You dont and wont see any middle fingers here.
     
  20. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

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    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    Screen, as Phil put it to me from his experience behind the wheel and I'm sure you'll agree from your seat time.
    He wanted to race against the best, not the second string.

    I can see this. A victory over a Mark Martin or a Dale Jr. in a Busch race would carry alot more weight if nothing more then to boost your own confidence abilities.

    I dont think the Cup boys gave Martin Truex such a hard time last year.
    I think he won quite a few races and crossed the finish line in others ahead of the Cup boys. Let's face it, there are Busch teams that are on the ball and others not. Nothing any different then any other racing series.