Culling - Legal in Missouri?

Discussion in 'LOCAL MISSOURI TALK' started by Mr.T, Feb 4, 2006.

  1. Mr.T

    Mr.T New Member

    Messages:
    2,553
    State:
    MO
    All this recent research on the new catfish limits has had me digging through the wildlife code looking for an answer to this question:

    Is it legal in Missouri to "cull" fish in your posession?

    That is, if I'm already at the daily limit for whatever species and I catch another one (a bigger one that I'd rather keep), can I release one of the fish in my posession and replace it with the new one?

    The code is not clear at all in that regard - they define "posession" fairly loosely and make no mention of "culling" anywhere that I can find.

    Are you technically in violation of the posession limit during the time it takes you to toss one out? Are you setting yourself up for a ticket from some Barney Fife conservation officer?

    Anyone have an "official" opinion from someone in the MDC?
     
  2. Itch2Scratch

    Itch2Scratch New Member

    Messages:
    1,662
    State:
    Ivy Bend on LOZ, Missouri
    I ask an officer this very question but I bet if I ask another one I would get a different answer Mr.T. His answer was that if you are going to release them it has to be as they are caught. I am sure the reasoning behind that is that not everyone has a live well. People who use stringers would probably be putting back mortally injured fish. Personally if you have a live well and the fish are healthy I don't see a problem with it.
     

  3. Rockin' Blues

    Rockin' Blues New Member

    Messages:
    310
    State:
    st.louis mo.
    A friend of mine was fishing crappi at Mark Twain and one of them had his limit 15 and was checked.He was told it was ok to fish for crappi still but only catch and release.
     
  4. GaryF

    GaryF New Member

    Messages:
    3,649
    State:
    O.P., KS
    I have a friend who was trout fishing at Roaring River. He caught his limit, but continued to catch and release. The agent gave him a ticket. It doesn't "seem" right, though. It's one thing with trout, but go catch 5 catfish, then switch to crappie fishing, and you just might end up catching another catfish anyway.
     
  5. Catcaller

    Catcaller New Member

    Messages:
    1,511
    State:
    SoutheastKansas
    That doesn't seem right Gary...but then again I don't live or fish in Missouri. (Althought I'd love to try out the hybrids at Truman)

    In Kansas (according to the regulation booklet) it's illegal to cull...but you can continue to fish as long as you release any caught after you get your limit.
     
  6. cook

    cook New Member

    Messages:
    1,494
    State:
    Plattsburg,Mo.(near K.C.)
    I don't see how anyone could get a ticket,even for trout,if its catch and release.Wether or not you have a limit should not matter at all.Thats one ticket I would have challenged in court.
     
  7. Catcaller

    Catcaller New Member

    Messages:
    1,511
    State:
    SoutheastKansas
    The CO was probably counting on him not challenging it. I'd fight it myself. Too bad most things these days comes down to money. That's what it sounds like to me.
     
  8. GaryF

    GaryF New Member

    Messages:
    3,649
    State:
    O.P., KS
    Well, I found this, it looks to be an area regulation that we shouldn't have to worry about outside the trout parks.

    http://www.mostateparks.com/roaringriver/troutregs.htm

    "No person shall continue to fish for any species in these trout waters after having four trout in possession."

    Still seems kind of harsh.
     
  9. cook

    cook New Member

    Messages:
    1,494
    State:
    Plattsburg,Mo.(near K.C.)
    Gary-thanks for digging that up-guess thats why I dont fish for trout.Too many regs and I don't drive a Volvo.

    Wolfie-2 limits and your done for the day???Guess you don't have to worry about that rule Bwhaaaaaaaa :):)
     
  10. Mr.T

    Mr.T New Member

    Messages:
    2,553
    State:
    MO
    That's an interesting point.

    I know I read "somewhere" that part of the argument in favor of the new blue cat limits was that, overall, you'd be able to actually take *more* fish than under the current limits.

    So whereas now you can take only 10 channels and blues combined, plus 5 flats, under the new rules, you can take 10 channels, 5 blues and 5 flats. EXCEPT THAT.... you're restricted to only 2 limits, period. So you really *can't* take more fish, only the same amount.

    Now, suppose I only keep 4 blues and 9 channels. Can I then go and take 15 crappie and 5 flatheads?
     
  11. smallriverrat

    smallriverrat New Member

    Messages:
    136
    State:
    Missouri
    I maybe wrong but I seem to remember a daily limit then possession limit. And both limits are usually different. I think for truman the daily limit is 30 crappie but possession limit is like 60? Usually the possession limit is double the daily limit. So If you hit your daily limit you can either fish for another fish or take those back and come back til your possession limit is hit. Or you can fish til you are one from your limit then fish for another species til your one from your limit etc. Of course that night fresh fish is good for dinner (which also lowers your limit too)

    Dave
     
  12. Willy

    Willy New Member

    Messages:
    242
    State:
    Missouri
    I used to fish with a MDC employee at times and if I remember the rule it was twice your daily limit in a 24 hour period,in other words you could legally have 10 flatheads plus up to 20 channels or blues in the boat ,but with the new rule ya can have 5 flats ,10 channels,and 5 bluecats in a 24 hr period per person in possession =20 fish in the pot per man with no more than twice that at one time/24hr period. When in doubt call the local agent or Jeff city to get it right.
     
  13. Mr.T

    Mr.T New Member

    Messages:
    2,553
    State:
    MO
    I think I've figured this one out... And I don't think it means what you think it means... :rolleyes: Smallriverrat's post got the wheels turning in my head, so I did some more research...

    This rule is saying that you're not allowed to have more than 2 times the daily limit of a particular species in your "possession" at any given time, not that you have to stop fishing once you've limited out on two species in one day.

    So, for example, you can't have more than 10 flats in your possession at any given time, and you can't keep more than 5 per day. The same section also states that you can't have more than your daily limit in your possession while on the waters where the limit applies. Whic means you can catch 5 flatheads, keep those 5 with you in the boat until you get off the water, and have another 5 in the freezer at home. But that's all you're allowed. Once all 10 of them are in the freezer, you're in violation if you catch and keep any more flatheads. Eat some and you're good to go.

    So by my reckoning, if you've got a freezer chock full of fish, you could be in trouble if an agent ever starts investigating...

    I'm going to clarify this one with the MDC also, but I'm about 99.5% certain that my interpretation is correct.

    And if you *really* want to get technical, the rules go on to say that you have to label all "stored wildlife" with your name, address, permit number, species and date placed into storage. But I'll bet there's not a soul in the state who abides by that rule...

    This section of the code covers daily and possession limits in general: http://www.sos.mo.gov/adrules/csr/current/3csr/3c10-4.pdf
     
  14. spoonfish

    spoonfish New Member

    Messages:
    3,780
    State:
    Warsaw, Mo.
    You are correct Marty
    The possesion limit is (usally) 2 times the daily limit, that dosent mean you have to stop fishing just because you have caught your limits on 2 different kinds of fish.
    One exception I know of is once you have caught your (Daily) limit of 2 spoonbill you are not allowed to continue to fish for spoonbill any more that day.
    Even though the possesion limit on spoonbill is 4 per person.
    Unless its a special regulation such as the spoonbill you can continue to fish as far as I know.
    Confusing aint it LOL.
     
  15. thomas feldon

    thomas feldon New Member

    Messages:
    202
    State:
    Farmington, MO.
    Guys; How much fish is enough? I think the limits provide enough room to feed a family of 6 for a week, every meal! Don't be selfish.
    We are talking about 1 day aren't we. If Your from the desert I could understand.
    What about catching your limit for the day, and spend some time with the miss's, or the kid's.
    Think about it!
    Even fish eat the small and leave the biggins to repopulate so they can eat again later. Except if your a fat cat and when your hungry you want everything that will fit in your mouth.
    Don't choke when you swallow to much.
    You don't have to feed the nieghbor.
    Teach him how to fish and you both can catch the daily limit.
    Now you and your nieghbor have enough to feed 12 for a week.:rolleyes:
     
  16. Mr.T

    Mr.T New Member

    Messages:
    2,553
    State:
    MO
    I think a lot of this limit discussion is more theoretical than anything - or, at least it is for me -- I don't recall the last time I caught a limit of *anything* let alone a limit on more than one species in a day. But as we go into the new 5 fish limit on blues, I can see it becoming a lot more likely that I might actually hit a limit one day and there are a lot of points here that are good to know.

    I still don't think I agree with Wolfie's interpretation of the "2 species limits and you're done" thing - will call the local office and see what they have to say. Maybe he's right - though if he is, it's certainly not clear in the regs. I'll report my findings here.
     
  17. Mr.T

    Mr.T New Member

    Messages:
    2,553
    State:
    MO
    FYI - Talked to the folks at the MDC's Kansas City district office and they confirmed that there is no rule requiring you to stop fishing after catching your limit on 2 species in one day.

    The "no more than 2 (two) statewide daily limits " rule that's been quoted here defines the possession limit for a given species as being 2 daily limits for that species. And that general possession limit is trumped by any more specific possession limit given for a particular species elsewhere in the code (for example, blue cats taken on the Mississippi river have different daily and possession limits.)

    They also confirmed that culling is not permitted - the keep/release decision has to be made at the time the fish is caught. I asked about the "gut hooked and bleeding fish" scenario and was told that it would basically be up to the discretion of the field agent if you are questioned. Though I'd think any self-respecting agent with a little common sense would give you credit for keeping a mortally wounded fish, even if it means releasing another already in your possession to stay at the daily limit.
     
  18. smallriverrat

    smallriverrat New Member

    Messages:
    136
    State:
    Missouri
    Well Tom, all I was trying to say is I don't fell the need to stop fishing just because I limited out on two species. I am perfectly fine with C&R. I don't have a little miss or kids to go home to and I enjoy fishing. It is not a matter of how much I can catch and keep it is just a matter of letting me do what I like. If I do limit out on two species then I will go to C&R and not have a problem with it. Besides there is some nights that I don't fell like cleaning fish so that night is all C&R and there is other nights that I fish for food.

    Dave
     
  19. GaryF

    GaryF New Member

    Messages:
    3,649
    State:
    O.P., KS
    "Guys; How much fish is enough?"

    I don't think anyone in the thread is complaining about the limits, just trying to understand the rules so that we don't get into trouble. Sometimes things are not as clear as one section of the wildlife code makes it appear. My buddy who got the ticket for continuing to catch and release trout after catching a limit never would have intentionally broken the rule. FWIW, I only kept one catfish last year, a smallish channel cat.
     
  20. micus

    micus New Member

    Messages:
    524
    State:
    Lake St. L
    Not all agents interpret the rules the same. My buds and I have always stopped keeping one short of the limit if we were going to keep on fishing just to be on the safe side.