ceramic tile install Q

Discussion in 'Other Repairs' started by JERMSQUIRM, Mar 10, 2008.

  1. JERMSQUIRM

    JERMSQUIRM New Member

    Messages:
    13,145
    State:
    il-waynesv
    hey fellas. im tearing into my bathroom tomorrow. totally gutting to studs floor celing the works. well ok. tomorrow im doing all but floor. i want to get walls celeing and new wiring all in while leaving the stool usable untill the walls ect are done. then in going for floor probably wed-thurs after walls and celing are in.

    my Q is i have 1' square ceramic tile ready for floor. i have 1/2 perma board here and ready. the cement board like durock. will 3/4" plywood topped with 1/2" perma board be strong enough to keep stress cracks from happening in tile?? i have some good crossville tile from a lexus dealership that was intended for cars to drive on but over crete. whos the tile experts??

    im not positive on the spacing of joists. its an old home and theres 3/4" 1x6 over them now thats comming out. but if there not within 16" i will be putting in 2x6 between them. i think there 16" though.

    ive only laid it on crete pad for woodstove.
     
  2. willcat

    willcat New Member

    Messages:
    2,463
    State:
    texas
    I laid mine in my bathroom on top of 3/4 plywood & havent had any problems whatsoever, with backer board u should be more than covered!!
     

  3. bud1110

    bud1110 New Member

    Messages:
    1,096
    State:
    East Texas
    It important to remember that Wood and Tile contract differently, just like concrete does. You can't have enough thickness to your Floors.. The thicker the better.

    You said it was an older Home, and I'm sure it has settled quite a bit over the years. Personally I like to use 3/4 treated plywood first, then cover that with 1/2 plywood across the grain of the 3/4. It is a good idea to use either Durock or Hardy backer board before setting your tile.

    You said you have 12" Tile to set? You will need access to a wet saw to make your cuts around the toilet flange. You can use it also to make all your cuts.

    Spacing:
    What kind of spacing are you going to use between the tiles? I personally wouldn't go over a 1/4" space between them. It kinda depends on the size of the Bathroom.

    Remember that if you don't want the Grout joints to show up as much, use a light colored Grout. Tex-rite Thinset is what I always used to stick my Tile. Just don't try to use Mastic for the Floor. It takes forever to dry (ie) days..


    Have fun with your project. Sounds like a big job going on...
     
  4. Bill D Curtis

    Bill D Curtis New Member

    Messages:
    252
    State:
    Blackwell Oklahoma
    sounds like you got it coverd you may have to use thin set with that duorock im not sure if regular tile adhesive is recomended over cement board
     
  5. bud1110

    bud1110 New Member

    Messages:
    1,096
    State:
    East Texas
    Thin set would be my first choice to use..
     
  6. JERMSQUIRM

    JERMSQUIRM New Member

    Messages:
    13,145
    State:
    il-waynesv
    10-4. this house is from the 40's so its settled prob bout all its gonna. i planned on the 3/4 at least. and i already have 4 4x8 sheets of cement board. and no i want thin set mortor. i will not be using a gule. i will be spacing about 1/4". i have access to a wet saw too. bathroom is 5 x 13.

    and this is thick ceramic i want a solid set. are you saying 3/4" and 1/2" + 1/2 cement board????? ansd i have matching grout from the origional project where i got tile. silver.
     
  7. 223reload

    223reload New Member

    Messages:
    10,798
    State:
    Oklahoma
    jeremy i would leave the flooring in unless its all bad and put a quarter or half inch osb on top and then the backerboard if you have to replace the whole floor go with three quarter plywood and use construction adhesive on the joists and screw it down this will help eliminate squeaks and movement under the tilemy capslok is messed up at the moment so i cant punctuate or it looks like crap lol
     
  8. bud1110

    bud1110 New Member

    Messages:
    1,096
    State:
    East Texas

    If your going all the way down to the floor joists themselves, I would use the 3/4" treated plywood. It's your call weather to use the 1/2" plywood or not. Definitely use the cement board as it will let the Thin Set have a good bond. When I built my House I used 1x8 ship lap on a 45degree angle for strength. then added the plywood after the walls were standing.

    In a Bathroom area you always want extra protection due to moisture. Either leaks which will happen from time to time, or humidity. The 3/4" treated plywood and the concrete board should do you nicely..

    Do you know how to make the join spacing 1/4" ? If not PM me and I will help you out. Or if you have any other questions feel free to contact me.. I would be happy to help any way I can...
     
  9. JERMSQUIRM

    JERMSQUIRM New Member

    Messages:
    13,145
    State:
    il-waynesv
    thanks guys. getting ready to run wire and take celeing out now. got walls off and cleaned up.


    P>S> i work in the construction trade also. i aint saying i steal lol, but i have enough screws to build a skyscraper,lmao. i havent nor would nail anything. all screws for every project. i even have durock special screws too hehehe.

    ya im moving the sink and stool to new locations so all flooring is coming up. we got the money to spare and are trying to do things good. i got all green water resistant drywall to go under the smooth slick paneling. tile looking paneling. thanks for reminding me about the construction adheasive on joists. i would have forgot. ill probably spend the extra few dollars on treated.

    i have enough cement board to do it. my neighbor had 3 sheets 4x8 in his garage when he bought the house. he gave it to me a few months ago and i have 2 3x5 durock. so thats 100% for sure going in. would 2 cross layer 1/2" be better than 1 layer of 3/4"???? i just dont want to bust a tile the first week,lol.:big_smile::eek:oooh:
     
  10. bud1110

    bud1110 New Member

    Messages:
    1,096
    State:
    East Texas
    Use the 3/4" Plywood. The walk on the Floor to see if it moves any at all. Make sure it's not spongy at all. Movement is what cracks tiles and grout joints. Make sure you use the sanded grout for the Floor tile..


    Set the Tile on one day, and grout it on the next day. That way you wont brake the bond of the Thin set. It must dry completely before you can walk on it. Failure to do that will cause tiles to loosen and move..

    Be sure and let the grout go through it's heat cycle before grouting or it will set up too quickly on you. If it starts getting too firm, sprinkle a little water on the grout to loosen it back up.

    You are gonna need to get a good Tile sponge for the clean up as you grout the joints. Makes all the difference...
     
  11. CountryHart

    CountryHart New Member

    Messages:
    10,914
    State:
    missouri
    Lowes sells advantech for about $20/sheet. It has a 50 year warrantee and sheds water like a duck. If I were tearing it down to the joist, this and dur-rock is what i would use. Have fun with that 1" tile:big_smile: Post us a pic or two.
     
  12. ozzy

    ozzy New Member

    Messages:
    3,936
    State:
    Lost Wages
    I'll throw my 2 cents in. Just make sure that whatever flooring you have above the joists nail with ringshank nails. They will suck the flooring down tight and keep it quiet. Hope this helps.
     
  13. snoman774

    snoman774 New Member

    Messages:
    30
    State:
    fouke,ar
    i would say after u have the plywood down 1/2 or 3/4 , use ring shank nails to hold the backer board (we always used hardi backer) down then put your tile down with thinset (always used versa bond little more money but sets like a rock) using 1/4 by 3/8 trowel ,also id suggest using the little rubber spacers u can get probly the same place u got tile and thinset either 1/4 or 3/8 ,and as suggested before the lighterthe grout color the less they stand out (assuming ur tile is lite colored)
    chris
     
  14. snoman774

    snoman774 New Member

    Messages:
    30
    State:
    fouke,ar
    i agree Bud u musta installed floors for a living.
     
  15. JERMSQUIRM

    JERMSQUIRM New Member

    Messages:
    13,145
    State:
    il-waynesv
    ok so far this is my plan. im gonna use 3/4 treated and construction sub floor adheasive on joists. will be screwed down tight with screws. ill do a check. i aint a light fella. the floor thickness aint a problem because a new door is going in too. i will probably go ahead with a 1/2 layer over it. also screwed tight. then the durock. and durock will be screwed down with industry cement board screws. they have a large head with fins on back to set them into the board. and are corrosion protected. i got them at work from the carpenters that were installing durock in hospitol bathrooms.

    the tile is a light charchoal grey with silver grout. it was all being installed at the lexas dealership. i had thin set but used it for another project. but i will be using thin set mortor to lay. ya i know it needs to set good before its grouted. we in the stucco work i do stick foam with notched trowels as well and have to wait a day to rasp out joints. also our mud (cement based) has to take a false set after mixing. i take it thats whay ya ment by heat cycle.???

    i have a new notched trowel for tile i bought when i installed the tile on woodstove pad last fall.

    what about the spacing. i get in a hurry alot so any ideas will help. i want to do this right.

    thanks for the help.:wink:
     
  16. JERMSQUIRM

    JERMSQUIRM New Member

    Messages:
    13,145
    State:
    il-waynesv
    its 1' (foot) square.
     
  17. snoman774

    snoman774 New Member

    Messages:
    30
    State:
    fouke,ar
    u can buy the spacers from lowes or home depot they look like a "+" in either 1/4 or 3/8 size u just lay them down flat at the corners an thats it just make sure you first row is straight and get after it (usually a line straight through the door looks best esp.if its at the end of a hallway but u want to make sure the door is fairly square with the room too)
    ps dont start at the door though lol think paint uself into corner use chalk lines to start at far end of room
    chris
     
  18. cat tamer

    cat tamer New Member

    Messages:
    694
    State:
    MO
    We'll Jerm it looks like Bud has got you coverd, I prefer the smaller 1/4" mortar joint, less grout to keep clean.
     
  19. 223reload

    223reload New Member

    Messages:
    10,798
    State:
    Oklahoma
    Now that my keyboard is workin again,I'lltry to add a bit more here. I just finished a pretty good sized tile job on a mobile home . I put the 1/4 " wonderboard on as the backer and set the tile with thinset 1/4x1/4 notched troul. grout lines were 1/4" on the hallway and bath using 16"x16" italian tile. The kitchen area I used 20"x20" italian tiles and spaced at 3/8". I also tiled the countertops with slate quarry tile groutlines spaced here 1/4" .I didnt want to use the 1/4" backer ,but thats what the homeowner wanted . Told him about the possibility of cracking besause of the way a mobile home is built ,But he wasn't having any of it. so I did the best that was possible under the circumstances. any way he was happy an I made a bit of money. I'll try an get some pics posted as the carpetguys were there today . If you didnt know this was a mobile home you could never tell.
     
  20. JERMSQUIRM

    JERMSQUIRM New Member

    Messages:
    13,145
    State:
    il-waynesv
    ive done most all improvement type things you can immagine. laminate floor and with my trade i do more drywall than i like,lol. though im a plasterer. meaning real plastered walls like over metal lath and exterior stucco. im not a dryawall taper. though i do it for extra cash and favors mostly. i just havent laid much tile. my buddie here in town used to work with a tile setter and im gonna get him here to help. i dont know how much hes laid buy hes done some. ya i remember seeing the + things at the stores. ive spent days in menards. i will probably get em. i just eyed the few tiles i did on the wood stove pad and they really pupprized me how good i did. i also plan on sealing the grout. right???? i assume in a bath thats a good idea????? should i use adheasive between the floor layers. between the 3/4 and 1/2" wood.

    im not sure after walls are in how wide its gonna be but its real close to 5' exactly. so i may be good on cutting. i may not even need to cut the rows end. and since its the width of the tub wide the tub is at the back wall. so it will cover any tile thats not full. and door is not in center so i may be able to get away with getting a good center and not have to cut the wall tiles at all.:cross: this is a rectangle room 13ish x 5ish. no corners or fancy turns so it should be a snap. YA RIGHT> lol.