Cast Net Discussion

Discussion in 'LOCAL INDIANA TALK' started by Fishgeek, Jun 17, 2009.

  1. Fishgeek

    Fishgeek Active Member

    Messages:
    1,149
    State:
    Indiana
    Looks like the "Bluegill a gamefish" thread was inactive long enough that it got bumped off the page...so I decided to start a new thread to continue the discussion about what is & is not legal to cast net for. Any of you guys hear back from you District CO Offices? I finally got a response...

    From: Jenkins, Dean
    Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:37 PM
    Subject: FW: Cast Net Question

    Sorry for the delay in this but wanted to get you the absolute answer instead of various interpretations that may cause a problem down the road. After talking with a couple officers and seeing a difference of opinion, I went to legal section and got the following. Would you please pass this on to Matthew as I can't find his email address. Let me know too, if this is helpful or merely muddies the water some more. Sometimes that happens you know, when you try to clear it up.




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sent: Tue 6/16/2009 10:45

    Subject: Cast Net Question


    Dean,

    I'm sorry for not getting back to you sooner with respect to this question but it took me a little bit to make sure that I was comfortable with the answer I was coming up with. Once I was confident of my answer I also wanted to run it past Fish & Wildlife so I could address any differences of opinion if there were any. The short answer I came up with is that a cast net can only be used for fishing when it is specifically authorized.

    This conclusion comes from the fact that sport fishing methods are specified at 312 IAC 9-7-2. 312 IAC 9-7-2 does not mention cast nets at all so that lead me to believe that cast nets are not allowed for fishing in a general sense. Although a "cast net" isn't specifically authorized for use for fishing it is defined at 312 IAC 9-6-1(77) so I had to believe that the term was used somewhere.

    After a thorough check I found that the use of a cast net is specifically authorized at 312 IAC 9-7-15 and 9-9-2, for taking minnows and crawfish, respectively. Therefore, I reached the opinion that cast nets are not allowed to be used for any regulated fish except minnows and crawfish. (Bolstering this conclusion is the fact that there are a few other pieces of fishing equipment defined in the rule, including "dip nets" and "minnow seines", that are not included as a legal method of fishing at 312 IAC 9-7-2, but which are authorized for use for specific things.)

    I ran my interpretations past Fish & Wildlife just to make sure I wasn't missing something and to allow me to address any differences of opinion before I responded to you. They agreed with my conclusions so there shouldn't be any confusion caused by this.

    If you have additional questions please let me know.

    Thanks,

    Administrative Law Judge
    Natural Resources Commission
    Indiana Government Center North, Room N501
    100 North Senate Avenue
    Indianapolis, Indiana 46204



    Ha! Basically they just reiterated the Indiana Code & didn't seem to make it any clearer. I'm emailing back & asking more specific questions about bluegill & shad. I looked at the fishing regs & bluegill are regulated at ONE spot in the whole state (JC Murphey Lake). Does that make them gamefish throughout the entire state then? Also, I wonder if b/c shad are illegal to use live (except at Brookville) that makes them "regulated" too? I'll try to get a better answer!
     
  2. bnorth

    bnorth New Member

    Messages:
    539
    State:
    Indiana
    Interesting...what I am inferring from this is that if a method is not specifically mentioned in the IC that it should be considered illegal? That doesn't quite jive with me...for instance, Rules 317 IAC 9-7-2 & 9-7-3 outlining legal Fishing Methods and Catfish, respectively, make no mention of "noodling" or "grabbling" or by any other definition "catching catfish by hand". Does that lack of acknowledgement make it an illegal means of catching fish?

    I think I could do a better job of writing this stuff...somebody give me a job.
     

  3. RiverBuggy4x4

    RiverBuggy4x4 New Member

    Messages:
    589
    State:
    Indiana
    so does that mean lassoing a flathead is an illegal means of fishing sorry ben:embarassed::smile2:
     
  4. tackleholic

    tackleholic New Member

    Messages:
    1,000
    State:
    New Albany
    Custodians are good at cleaning up someone elses mess.:eek:oooh::crazy:
     
  5. drpepper

    drpepper New Member

    Messages:
    6,133
    State:
    Indiana
    http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache...+following:&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&ie=UTF-8
     
  6. drpepper

    drpepper New Member

    Messages:
    6,133
    State:
    Indiana
    Ya almost gotta be a lawyer to fish in Indiana:roll_eyes:
    You would think they would know this stuff w/o asking each other- ain't that the least of their job? For cryin' out loud, lmao.
    I'm not sure about BGs- but I am on the rest of it. But BG's arent mentioned in the gamefish list though so then how can ANYONE say otherwise? And again, anything NOT a gamefish or endangered is legally baitfish and therefore legal to net and keep... including carp or shad so long as its dead. Ask a lawyer, any of this would hold in court. I'd defend myself with it pro se- no worries.
     
  7. OhioRiver

    OhioRiver New Member

    Messages:
    307
    State:
    Indiana
    print it out and keep it in your wallet in case the next conservation officer doesnt know what hes talking about. lol
     
  8. dburkhead

    dburkhead New Member

    Messages:
    51
    State:
    Indiana
    Can be used to catch minnows.

    I wonder if the person answering this is aware that per the Indiana Code Minnows are defined:

    IC 14-8-2-167
    "Minnow"
    Sec. 167. "Minnow", for purposes of IC 14-22, includes the following:
    (1) All of the fish of the minnow family (cyprinidae).
    (2) The young of all species of fish that are not protected by law.
    As added by P.L.1-1995, SEC.1.

    So the next question (which I asked both in the other thread and of my local district office) is what constitutes "protected by law"?
     
  9. drpepper

    drpepper New Member

    Messages:
    6,133
    State:
    Indiana
    alright, time to get Scott (tswebb71) over here and get his professional opinion on all this... lemme see If'n I can find him....
     
  10. bnorth

    bnorth New Member

    Messages:
    539
    State:
    Indiana
    HA I got one better...I printed out all 106 pages of the Indiana Code pertaining to Fish and Wildlife and I'll keep it in my vehicle.
     
  11. drpepper

    drpepper New Member

    Messages:
    6,133
    State:
    Indiana
    Might have to have one of them mexican dudes on the river bank interpret it for you lol
     
  12. river scum

    river scum New Member

    Messages:
    3,474
    State:
    hooterville indiana
    no kidding, Ben. he would probably just tell you to "show it to the judge boy" and slap one on you. lol
     
  13. tswebb71

    tswebb71 New Member

    Messages:
    405
    State:
    So. IL
    Well guys per Doctor P’s request, I have done a little research and here goes. Please note that the below is my opinion only. As such, a C/O or a judge may have a different opinion. Thus, proceed at your own risk. In addition, I am not offering legal advice. I am merely giving my opinion as fisherman that happens to be a lawyer.

    First, the ALG cites 312 IAC 9-7-2 (sport fishing) as the proper methods for fishing. No where therein doesn’t it mention cast nets. However, that section is entitled “sport fishing” which implies that it regulates the taking of “sport fish”. Sport fish are defined at 312 IAC 9-6-1 (77) as follows:


    (77) "Sport fish" means any of the following:
    (A) Largemouth bass.
    (B) Smallmouth bass.
    (C) Spotted bass.
    (D) Rock bass.
    (E) White crappie.
    (F) Black crappie.
    (G) Walleye.
    (H) Sauger.
    (I) Saugeye.
    (J) Striped bass.
    (K) White bass.
    (L) Hybrid striped bass.
    (M) Yellow bass.
    (N) Muskellunge.
    (O) Tiger muskellunge.
    (P) Northern pike.
    (Q) Chain pickerel.
    (R) Trout or salmon.


    Note that neither gizzard shad nor shad is included in the foregoing definition of “sport fish”. As an aside, neither catfish nor bluegill is included in the list either. It is clear that one cannot lawfully take “sport fish” with a cast net. However, that does not restrict the taking of other types of fish (non sport fish) with cast nets.


    There is a counter argument in that the “sport fishing” section (7) provides the word “fish” and does not specifically limit it applicability to “sport fish”, see below:

    (c) An individual may take fish with not more than three (3) poles, hand lines, or tip-ups at a time. Except as provided in subsection (g), affixed to each line shall be not more than two (2) hooks or two (2) artificial baits or harnesses for use with live bait.

    Cast net is defined at 312 IAC 9-6-1 (20) (not (77) as the ALJ cited). There are NO regulations on the use of a cast net. The only regulations thereon relate to its diameter and mesh size.

    The ALJ also cited 312 IAC 9-7-15 and 9-9-2 for reference. 9-7-15 relates to the lawful taking of minnows, not the uses of a cast net. For instance, it authorizes the use of a cast net to take minnows. However it does NOT provide that cast nets cannot be used for other purposes. 9-7-15 does the same thing but only as to crawfish. Thus, the focus of those two provisions is on the fish, not the uses of a cast net.


    I know you guys are aware that the code provisions are more than a little unclear as they relate to cast nets and desperately need to be cleaned. DNR can clean up the mess on its own without a legislative vote. However, getting it to do it may be a little difficult.


    Once again, I am not advocating one position or the other. I merely set forth the arguments above. Throw em at your own risk!!
     
  14. whiteriverbigcats

    whiteriverbigcats New Member

    Messages:
    3,452
    State:
    Indiana
    Noodling is illeagal in Indiana
     
  15. bnorth

    bnorth New Member

    Messages:
    539
    State:
    Indiana
    How do you know? It's not mentioned in the code :wink:
     
  16. drpepper

    drpepper New Member

    Messages:
    6,133
    State:
    Indiana
    It is illegal to use the following devices to
    take fish from public waters: a weir, electric
    current, dynamite or other explosive, a
    firearm, a crossbow, hands alone, or any
    substance that may weaken or poison fish.
    Cast nets cannot be used to catch sport fish.​
     
  17. drpepper

    drpepper New Member

    Messages:
    6,133
    State:
    Indiana
    BTW catfish are considered a sportfish by IDNR and so are bluegills(panfish).... so that settles that lol
    So that makes it illegal to cast net game fish AND sport fish.
    so the list of sportfish is what we need here.... I doubt shad is sport fish, but hell, ya never know- lol

    Ahhh, here we go: http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/3599.htm

    so we already have a list of "gamefish"..... everything else is "bait" and legal to keep from castnet unless endangered.
     
  18. drpepper

    drpepper New Member

    Messages:
    6,133
    State:
    Indiana
  19. tswebb71

    tswebb71 New Member

    Messages:
    405
    State:
    So. IL

    Doc, where did you find this?
     
  20. drpepper

    drpepper New Member

    Messages:
    6,133
    State:
    Indiana