Cape Fear Article

Discussion in 'LOCAL NORTH CAROLINA TALK' started by price, Dec 31, 2007.

  1. price

    price New Member

    Messages:
    175
    State:
    North Carolina
  2. Mac-b

    Mac-b Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    19,564
    State:
    North Caro
    Great find Bro. Price. I have alway wonder how they could just shock the flathead and not the other fish, now I guess we know. A special thanks should go to the fellow in Fayetteville and the Fayetteville Observer for informing the public of this situation.
     

  3. catfish4fun

    catfish4fun New Member

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    33
    State:
    nc
    bluecats native not to cape fear . where do they find these reporters .just like my local paper they mis-print or report wrong.i think channel cats are not native to most of north carolina (tennesse & new river drainage maybe) but not cape fear. the man should have got boat # and reported if they were shocking with a genarator
     
  4. catfishrus

    catfishrus New Member

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    1,569
    State:
    north carolina
    report to who?nobodies patroling those waters for shocking. does bladen county have a boat for patroliing shockers? ncwrc isnt interested they have nothing to do with it without regulations.
     
  5. catfish4fun

    catfish4fun New Member

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    33
    State:
    nc
    regulations say hand crank device i know nc wildlife resource officers go on river they have checked my boat . from what i have been told a crank telephone will only work on rocky bottom . f you get a way from dam it is mud bottom on most of the river .if boys are using a generator i think after a few flat tires they would not come back .but with all the local crack heads and illegal at hog plant they have their hands full. i research on flat heads spawning Missouri they have to catch large brood fish on trot lines and set hooks they can not shook the big boys and girls up with their shocking rigs i read this on state web page . IF THEY ARE USING A GENARATOR CALL THEY LAW OR TAKE PICTURES OF THEM
     
  6. CMJ

    CMJ Guest

    Thanks for posting that Price. I may not ever fish the cape fear but articles like this can only help open the eyes of more people that can help save our catfish for the future in all of our lakes and rivers. I hope our state can see what's going on in all the other states around us and will follow their lead.
     
  7. tigman

    tigman New Member

    Messages:
    100
    State:
    North Carolina
    Shocking catfish should be ban period. People like the ones in the Cape Fear shocking fish are just plain greedy and destroying another great fishery. Sometimes I think the human gene pool could use a little cholrine.
     
  8. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

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    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    The reason he didnt get a boat number is because the boat he was talking about in the interview was a research boat. He knew this.
    This incident was investigated.
    Biologists are working under permits granted by the inland fisheries to shock with the type of equipment the inland fisheries would use.
    After this article was published in the Fayetteville Observer they were reminded by Inland Fisheries to cut off their shocking devices as they encountered other fishermen on boats or the bank.
    Sounds like thats what they did as the fella stated they were pulling in their lines.

    I had an hour long conversation with an Inland Fisheries manager in Raleigh a couple of weeks ago. He brought this article up in the conversation asking if I had seen it, which I had. The article is an old one. He then told me the real story.

    This is the path of emotion. It attempts to obscure fact.
    This was discussed at length.


    Just letting the readers of this thread know that the article is bogus according to the Inland Fisheries who happen not to be in support of laws allowing civilians to be able to use shocking devices other then those granted a permit by the Inland Fisheries. They could have ran with the article themselves to advance their agenda but they didnt. They tell it for what it is.
     
  9. Mac-b

    Mac-b Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    19,564
    State:
    North Caro
    Mark, the story might be old to you, but it is not old news to a lot of people. It was published on March 25, 2007.

    Bill Hayner states in the story that he knows the difference between the private shocker boat and the ones used by the Wildlife folks.

    Can you go into more details about who the Inland Fisheries people are and if they are commissioned by the NCDNR to conduct studies.

    Several of us have seen the NCDNR shocker boats on Wylie,LKN and Mtn. Island and these shockers only stun all the fish within a certain area. Why would the Insland Fisheries group kill the fish within their study areas? Something doesn't sound right about this Inland Fisheries deal!

    There are shocker boats on a portion of the Cape Fear operater by private people, correct or not.

    Thanking you in advance for offering me more details and clarification of the who Mr. Hayner saw shocking and killing the fish and why did they need to harvest the fish.
     
  10. WylieCat

    WylieCat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,175
    State:
    NC
    Good article.

    I am glad people can not "hand crank" around here. That would be target number two of the Carolina Catfish Club!! I am bit surprised there is not more of an outcry from anglers down east, but apathy reigns king and the sqeeky wheel gets the oil.

    I have seen "contract" shocking boats on Wylie a couple of times. They were contracted by Duke Energy to shock as part of a reseach program. What were studying? Largemouth bass of course. :smile2:

    In my opinion, and this is based soley on the apprearance of it, shocking catfish is one of the most stupid things I can think of for our wildlife resources. My guess is that it only happens because most of the non-fishing community does not know about it. It is also proof that some folks will do whatever the state says is ok despite its wrecking effect on the resourse.

    Hey, thats just my opinion. :wink:
     
  11. catfishrus

    catfishrus New Member

    Messages:
    1,569
    State:
    north carolina
    Come on mark can you answer macs question? We dont want to be mislead here. Im starting to wonder which side of the fight you on when it takes so long to get a reply. I hope you not making something up on us. Just kidding i know you want to see new regulations as much as the rest of us. I would like to hear the answer to Macs questions though since you brought this to our attention and know the inside story. Kind of sound like a cat covering up crap to me without knowing more to the story. you know he said she said thing. So please reply to Macs question if you have a answer.:big_smile:
     
  12. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

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    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    If you feel you have been mislead, pick up the phone and call Raleigh.
    Anytime I have a question I call. Usually I wind up in a conversation other then what I called for. I guess I'm pretty pleasant to talk to and not so demanding. I present myself as seeking information, not demanding of something I know nothing about and dont want to hear it.

    On a more personal level, I drive to Raleigh.

    I have no clue how many permits are issued for shocking for the purpose of study or who they are issued to to other then one.
    I do know UNC Wilmington runs alot of studies on the river. I imagine they keep some sort of permit. I know Kwak is permitted in atleast 5 rivers.

    As far as the dead fish from shocking. I haven't seen any proof of the dead fish. I didnt see any pictures. I didnt read any follow up articles in the Fayeteville Observer or the local and state fish rags. What I read and what Inland Fisheries told me are two different things.
    Having read the story and listened to Inland Fisheries explain how it works, what was done and what is BS I tend to believe Inland Fisheries.
    Its no secret these agencies abhor shocking fish. They abhor it for a different reason. Its not their law. They have absolutely no say so in the law other then what was granted by an outgoing legislator in 2006 which is the right of the commission to place a season on shocking. Thats as far as they can go with it.
    Its a legislative law not a NCWRC law. Big difference because the NCWRC cant overule or ammend anything that goes through the assembly.
    The law has to die the same way it was born. Through the assembly.
    The shocking law is not unique in that aspect. Other game and fish laws go the same route.

    The thing with inland fisheries is this. They think if shocking is abolished the "sportsmen" being the "sportsmen" that they claim to be will continue to remove flatheads. I disagree. The CPR movement is portraying just the opposite. I think it can work without shocking with education of the species.

    I'm not so sure if shocking was abolished in its current form if it wouldnt be reinstated under NCWRC laws.
    I say this because when I was trying to get the voltage and amperage restrictions for shocking I was sent from Raleigh to the local field agent for the NCWRC who sent me to an inland fisheries biologist locally, who in turn gave the number to a fella that builds shocking devices so I wouldnt kill myself.
    Everyone I talked to that day was tickled to death I was interested. More then willing to help and all but hollering at me to come have some fun.
    That gave me a good bit information right there. There isnt alot of folks doing it contrary to what the opponets to shocking seem to believe or either alot more of it needs to go on.

    What Raleigh thinks and what the field agents think may be two different things. Then you have the district heads.
    Case in point, Raleigh tells me we're not hiding the fact we are against civilians shocking a river.
    The field agent on scene is tickled to death I'm interested in a shocking a device. So is the area biologist to the point of "hooking me up".

    I find it interesting the article tells where the guy is from (gray's creek) but doesnt tell where he was fishing other then Cape Fear river. The whole river is not legal to shock in.
    And where is anybody else complaining about all the dead fish, the lack of snakes, and anything else. He portrays a nuclear holocaust. Alot of people fish that river for there not be atleast someone else coming forward or the continuation of the saga.

    I've fished the Cape Fear enough to know it will humble you real quick.
    Some folks are eager to blame their being humbled on a shocking boat or anything else that presents itself as being plausible.
    I call it for what it is. Skunked.
     
  13. FATFLATTIE

    FATFLATTIE New Member

    Messages:
    2,170
    State:
    ILM, NC
    About the only thing I have to add to the discussion is that UNCW does I believe have a shocking boat, but they don't use it at all. At least not the fisheries biology department so I have no idea who else would use it. Also, anyone who believes that few people use shocking devices doesn't spend a lot of time on the river or doesn't talk to many people who live near and fish the river. I know of several people that shock down here where it is completely illegal to do so. If I've met 4 people who shock catfish in my time in the area it should show you that more people are doing it than one might think.

    Also, I'd like to see any evidence that shocking is helping the native fish populations and any evidence that not shocking will be a detriment to the native fish species. I'm not trying to sound smart, I'd just really like to see some scientific evidence showing one side or the other.
     
  14. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    How many of those 4 people have you turned into the NCWRC if you know they are shocking where its illegal? I would roll over on them just as quick as I would if I saw them climbing through the bathroom window of your house, friend or foe.

    Knowing me like I know me, I'd make sure they were caught.
     
  15. Mac-b

    Mac-b Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    19,564
    State:
    North Caro
    Well Mark J, I did a little research, some of it from the BOC and the rest from BOC members and by Google research.

    It appears to be a hint of true is what Mr. Hayner said to the Fayetteville newspaper in March of 2007.

    Alfred Bass, who I believe is a rather good catfish guide on the Cape Fear and who had a story done about him and the Cape Fear in the In-Fisherman Magazine in 2007, states that he has similar feeling about the Cape Fear, such those by Mr. Hayner. He tell clients and others not to even bother fishing between Locks 1 to 3, or close by where shocking is legal.

    The biologist for that section of the Cape Fear, Mr. Keith Ashley has allegedly informed fishermen not to fish in the shocking area if they want to catch a nice catfish and not to fish at all if shocking has recently occurred.

    The NC Sportmans has done at least two articles on the Cape Fear as it relates to shocking and it's affects on the fisheries there. In past articles, the NC Sportsman has printed stories about people harvesting 40 to 60 pound blues and flatheads by using shocking devices. Law only allowed for the removal of flatheads, but the blues get shocked just like everything else.

    Flatflattie said that he had observed shocking on the Cape Fear outside of the designated area and you stated that he should have gotten the boat number and turned them in to the Wildlife officers. But earlier, you state that the field officers were tickle to death that you wanted info. on shocking. Well, if that is the truth, what good would it have done Bro. Wes to report what he observed?

    At one time, the Cape Fear held the State record for both the Ark. Blue and the Flathead and now Badin, Tillery and LKN are the places to go to catch a record Ark. Blue and sooner or later, a large trophy flathead will become a State record from one of these lakes or High Rock.

    At one time Mr. Ed Davis, now deceased, held both the Ark. Blue and Flathead records for the State of North Carolina, all from the area where shocking is allowed or real close by.

    I don't know Mr. Brian Newberger, the current holder of the Flathead record from the Cape Fear, but he fishes the Cape Fear quite a bit and I have been told by others that he feels the same way about the subject as Mr. Hayner, Mr. Bass and Mr. Ashley.

    You were quick to discount Mr.Hayner's story by calling it BS and then saying later that he just got skunked. Well Bro., I'm not so sure you called this one right. To me, where there is smoke, there is fire. I think you have a sad situation down thar on the Cape Fear, and I think that someone in that area, such as yourself, should fight for an outright ban on this pratice.

    The only time I think shocking should take place is for research and the only reason I am in favor of this is because it is difficult for the researchers to net blues and flatheads like they can stripers, bass, crappie, etc.
     
  16. Bryan8552

    Bryan8552 New Member

    Messages:
    422
    State:
    nc
  17. Bryan8552

    Bryan8552 New Member

    Messages:
    422
    State:
    nc
     
  18. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC

    He didnt bother to get the boat number Mac , just like he didnt bother to take pictures of the holocaust or tell where on the holocaust acurred.
    He didnt get a boat number just like somebody else dont turn folks in that are shocking illegally.

    An inland fisheries manager told me the article was BS and why.

    I dont care who believes the article or not, I am just the bearer of information I was given by people that are against shocking!
    Who would have thought anyone would ever shoot the messenger?
    My exact intentions were Mac, that if CCC were going to use this article in their fight against shocking it might not be such a wise idea if its a BS article.
    now that the article is spread around and the messenger shot, who's going to run damage control after all the folks against shocking have run all over town with this article?
    If an inland fisheries manager says it BS whats he going to say when you use it for your case?

    I'm not the enemy I'm made out to be.
    I am not for the flathead in the Cape Fear . I am for the whole river.
    The flathead will never be eradicated from the river. Its not possible.
    They can be controlled.


    Those other articles. Do they relate the same holocaust?
    I've seen plenty of fishermen that dont like shocking.
    Seen plenty of people say something about shocking.
    I've seen one article saying that the fish and snakes are gone from the river and no pictures. Not even where he was fishing, but he saw a shock boat!
     
  19. FATFLATTIE

    FATFLATTIE New Member

    Messages:
    2,170
    State:
    ILM, NC
    I haven't turned any anyone. I'm pretty sure that they'd have to be caught in the act correct? None of these guys call me in advance to let me know they're going to be shocking:roll_eyes: It also does no good to have maybe 1 inland fisheries field officer in the area. If they're around they surely don't make their presence known. I fish all the time and I have never seen a wildlife officer on the Cape Fear, NE Cape Fear, Black River, Town Creek, and I haven't seen one in probabaly 2+years at Sutton. They also never bring a boat to Sutton the few times that I've seen them. It's not my job to cite these guys and it's not my job to try and figure out when these guys are going to go just so I can call the wildlife guys. I just don't have the time, I have a 50+hour a week job so it's up to the guys who get paid to correct these things to do something about it. It's not really the officers fault either b/c I'm sure they're understaffed in the area b/c it's a large geographic region with a ton of ramps. Sometimes it seems like a losing battle. I will however try and attend the meeting at Elizabethtown that's coming up.
     
  20. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    I'm not so sure I understand correctly.
    If I was that fired up, and I knew for a FACT 4 people were shocking illegally, they would be caught if I had to drive to Raleigh to get them caught.

    In fact if I saw someone illegally shocking, I would drive to Raleigh if I had to get them caught.
    If I had to lay in a muddy ditch and take a day off work, I'd see they got caught.

    You see, I can deal with shocking , bank fishermen, boat fishermen, juggers, and limbliners.
    I cant deal with those that make us look bad that do the things according to laws ie. People shocking illegally, bank fishermen trashing the bank, boat fishermen that cant operate a boat in a safe manner, juggers that dont pull their jugs, and my biggest gripe, the jerks that dont remove their limblines.

    Like I said, its not about the flathead to me. Its about the whole river.
    If we've got laws on the books they need to be enforced. "it's not my job" is not an excuse.
    Its not my job to tow folks that dont keep their outboards up back to the boat ramp either. I do it even if it does wipe my fishing time out.