Can CNR hurt your fishery???

Discussion in 'LOCAL OHIO TALK' started by Salmonid, Dec 18, 2009.

  1. Salmonid

    Salmonid New Member

    Messages:
    1,833
    State:
    SW Ohio
    Just figured with all the crappy weather heading into the area, this discussion would be a good one.

    Ok, here is the question... do you think, that by CNR'ing a quality fish more then a few times over a given short time period, ( say, a month or even over the summer) that the fish will wise up and move on to another location in its best interest of self preservation??

    I know we all take a good fish from our favorite fishing holes and release them hoping to get bigger, but what I have seen and experienced, is that we seem to recatch them a time or two in the next few weeks then we do not seem to recatch these fish again. Part of this is that by fishing a certain stretch or piece of structure, that we tend to get onto these fish in the short few weeks that they are in the area and then they seasonally change locations within the river but I do believe there are resident fish in some holes that just seem to disappear after being caught a few times and wondered if others feel or experienced this same phenomenon?

    Now, I have spent 20+ years chasing another apex predator, the brown trout and it has been proven many times that they will, after a fair amount of pressure, leave there home range they have lived all there life in to avoid being caught again. This has been done and proven by many scientific groups as trout are often radio tracked and easy to spot in clear water to monitor there behavior. Just wondered if the big flatheads are smart enough to move on from there favorite haunts if prover pressured??? We as humans seem to forget and not think about the things a wild animal /fish will do in the name of self preservation. Food for thought.

    Salmonid
     
  2. catfishrollo

    catfishrollo New Member

    Messages:
    6,894
    State:
    Ohio
    I believe adult flatheads travel more than one would think. However, I can honestly say back when I was fishing the same stretches of river 3, 4,5 days a week for flatheads, I never caught the same flathead, but maybe once or twice in all the years I have been targeting them that I am aware of. I have caught flatheads that had obvious stringer holes run through the bottom of their lower jaw from others , but that happens every now and then if you spend enough nights at them. Now, obvious structure areas from my experience have declined in productivity over the years! I have talked about this before in other posts here. Obvious spots around here 15 or so years ago would catch you good fish and numbers, but that has changed with the added pressure on the sport. Most of our big or trophy flatheads each year come from submerged structure, which is mostly unseen, or areas where we can locate the other species of baitfish, they can target during certain hours mostly at night. Some of these arent even structure areas, simply just location, time of year, and water temps, I believe play a huge part in setting up for them. Im not saying a piece of structure cant produce good fish,, after fish, and maybe it is the same fish if released there! But, I have changed my attitude towards placement over time, and keep trying different stuff and do more slow scouting now than ever. Obvious spots, for people like me don't work once a week if thats all you can fish. You need an edge. I don't catch the biggest flatheads here in Ohio, but can't no one say I don't catch goodones for my time spent at em....:wink: rollo
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2009

  3. Snagged2

    Snagged2 New Member

    Messages:
    6,252
    State:
    Verde Valley AZ
    Maybe these fish just die...
     
  4. ohio hilljack

    ohio hilljack New Member

    Messages:
    943
    State:
    ohio
    I don,t think they move on any more than they do in normal situations and cycles, its pretty obvious to me that they are just smarter than I am.
     
  5. skippi2use

    skippi2use New Member

    Messages:
    866
    State:
    Indiana
    Heck Scientist have also proven time and time again that global warming is happening!!! Hold on, OR is that global cooling. My feeling is yes they move not from science though. I think other fish move in though. If I go out to a bar for excample, get the crap beat out of me, ah I may not go back in that bar. I know that I saw an article out of Virginia I believe. This guy had tagged thousands of fish and had only caught a fish that he had tagged 2 or 3 times.
     
  6. smoothkip25

    smoothkip25 New Member

    Messages:
    1,320
    State:
    ohio
    Ive only been Chasing Flatheads hard for the last couple years and I have noticed that my better Quality fish have came from spots that do not stick out. If i never would have been on boats that had depth finders I would have never stopped at these places. I caught quite a few flats on log jams but smaller quality fish. I have heard of guys catching the same fish a few times but I seem to try to change my locations every trip out. I have fished the same hole a few nights in a row but seem to have better luck mixing it up.
     
  7. catcrazed

    catcrazed New Member

    Messages:
    575
    State:
    ohio
    Everyone knows how I feel about the whole netting thing but it has taught me something and I would like to share it with everyone. Everyone on here knows by now I have a friend that does it and I hate it, but hes been my friend for years and im not gonna just quit talking to him. All these studies keep saying that flatheads stay in there general location for most if not all of there life. Well I dont believe that for one second and this is why. My friend that nets has done this for the past 3 years and his nets are in the same exact spots year after year. Okay if he starts getting hundreds of lbs of flatheads every couple of days and the scientists are right, wouldnt he have to move his nets to stay productive? NO! and that tells me that these fish travel a heck of a lot more on the Ohio river atleast than they claim. After getting about 6000lbs of flatheads in 2007 and 2008 you would think that the numbers would decline right. Wrong!! He got over 8,000lbs this year with the same amount of nets. Those studies mean nothing to me anymore. Now as for a little river the studies may mean more i don't know but as bad as I absoluteley dispise my friend taking the fish out, it has taught me things that I would have never knows without it. Another big thing that I learned from this is that when the river is up and current is raging in the warm months he gets tons of flatheads in these conditions which also tells me that this garbage about fish staying behind a piece of structure all the time in high current is wrong because the hoop nets have the opening at the end of the net where the fish are swimming up stream to swim into them. Fast moving water tends to make these fish move upstream and thats a fact that ive leaned from this method. On the other hand, the fish may think the hoop net is a piece of structure and maybe thats why the nets get loaded up with fish in these conditions. Funny thing is, he very rarely ever gets a blue or channel. That part is weird to me. 95% of what he gets are flatheads. Now that one I cant explain. I figured that there were more channels than anything in the ohio but maybe im wrong. Anyways, didnt mean to bring up the netting thing, it wasnt to anyone fired up but it was to give you guys some useful information.
     
  8. Netmanjack

    Netmanjack New Member

    Messages:
    3,734
    State:
    Ohio
    It is scientific fact! that birds fly and fish swim; and keeping that in mind, if you catch a fish and try to make it fly, you will fail miserably. Now that same fish that you couldn't get to fly, wont have any trouble fleeing, which is close to flying only different. This is precisely why I always break off my biggest fish, sometimes even before I see them, so I know that they will remain in the same area, so I can attempt to catch them again............:wink:
     
  9. Snagged2

    Snagged2 New Member

    Messages:
    6,252
    State:
    Verde Valley AZ
    Netman,,,,, 'cept for flyin' fish,, but, we don't knick many of them around here!!!:smile2:
     
  10. pendog66

    pendog66 New Member

    Messages:
    2,121
    State:
    Brookville OH
    ive caught a few flatheads that i know i have caught before but not very often. I just think if you use the same bait and same presentation every time they start to wise up.
     
  11. metalman

    metalman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,463
    State:
    IN
    Name:
    Winston
    I tag all the guys I beat the crap out of and have never beat the crap out of a tagged guy:wink:

    I'm not convinced that they move out but I believe that if they are caught often enough they will begin to associate certain things such as smells, tastes or the feel of line or hooks with getting caught and thus become more difficult to catch.
    I do know for a fact that this is the case with carp.
    ...W
     
  12. hunted

    hunted New Member

    Messages:
    1,943
    State:
    washington court house,oh
    I am sure that fish move on for a variety of different reasons. Not only time of year, water temps and the like. But maybe from a bad experience or a few. Maybe even a larger fish moving them out of their spot.

    I do believe that fish will smarten up though. If you drop a bluegill in fifteen feet of water in a log jam and catch a flat on it. Maybe two or three times, he's gonna realize that that bluegill that keeps coming back and biting him is not right. And maybe shouldn't be there in the first place. That's why I like different baits and also different presentations.

    I do believe that if fish a comes up shallow and preys the banks for food that he could very well go back out to the channel at a different spot and hold there until time to feed or if it is a good place to rest and feed, take up home there for a while. The fish move around and I don't think they always stick to a particular structure or just one structure. Pretty much what suits them at the time.
     
  13. whiteriver

    whiteriver New Member

    Messages:
    617
    State:
    in
    :0a21: My only question is: Just how hard would it be to outsmart a bunch of flathead fishermen????????????:dribble: :0a28: :0a31:
     
  14. flathunter

    flathunter New Member

    Messages:
    5,723
    State:
    Ohio
    I caught the same flathead from the same hole 4 years in a row. he had a deformed lower jaw thats how I know it was the same fish...first year he weighed 37-lbs, 4th year he weighed 45-lbs...I caught him everytime within 15 yds ...

    He wont be caught again, I saw him lying in a boat that a group of trotliners and just brought to the ramp, he was going to a paylake.:angry:
     
  15. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    There have been beacon studies done with flatheads.
    One was done on the Cape Fear river.
    They had flatheads traveling up and down 40 miles or so of river and that river would be somewhat limiting travel wise.

    A flathead is going where the food is. Food gets scarce he is going to move.
    These are fish at the top of the food chain and a predator fish.

    As for the original question I say you need to remove fish.
    Everything I've seen on it is total pounds. Not a break down of this many this size and that many that size.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2009
  16. I have seen the same flat caught this summer in the same general area, a week apart. In my experience, if ya hammer the same spot every night it definately shuts the bite down. I try to move around enought to let that spot get back to normal.

    And my New Years wish every year is the the Flatties forget everything that happened this year while hibernating, haha.:wink: