Busch wackers

Discussion in 'Wolfman's Nascar Pit Stop' started by wolfman, Mar 19, 2006.

Should the Nextel Cup drivers compete in Busch series

  1. Yes

  2. No

  3. Does not matter

Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. wolfman

    wolfman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,227
    State:
    Triadelphia, WV
    Name:
    Walter Flack
    Should Nextel cup drivers compete in the Busch series?
     
  2. wolfman

    wolfman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,227
    State:
    Triadelphia, WV
    Name:
    Walter Flack
    There are now more than ever Nextel Cup drivers racing in the Busch series. I like it for the competition aspect where the less experienced driver can see how well they can do against the Cup drivers. But, also realize that a lot of good potential drivers moving up will be eliminated from qualifying.
     

  3. Big Country01

    Big Country01 New Member

    Messages:
    964
    State:
    brandon,florida
    if you ask me that is like taking a major league baseball player and letting him fill in fromm time to time in a minor league game...let the minors have their own game and let them step up to the majors when they are ready....
    besides it screws with there points for their own championship at the end of the year....
     
  4. kbgrillin

    kbgrillin New Member

    Messages:
    862
    State:
    Tennessee
    I think Nextel Cup drivers should not be allowed to race in the Busch series. Nextel Cup drivers are the Best of the Best. They have graduated from Busch. So let the Busch guys have there day in the spotlight. Just my opinion.
     
  5. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    You have to look at it in the right perspective.
    The Busch series is its own racing series with it's own set of rules.
    Whether you drive cup or busch you still have to follow the rules of busch if you race busch.
    Telling a cup driver he cant drive in the busch series is no different then BASS telling me I cant fish in their tournaments because I'm a professional catfisherman.
    Nascar has really got alot of people snowed if they think cup racing has the best talent and the busch series has all the runner ups or lesser drivers.
    Team owners use the busch series as a stepping stone not so much as a hands on racing teacher, ( these people are already known talents in the business) but as a place to groom them for the cameras and sponsors.
    You cant compare stock car racing to baseball no more then you could compare boxing to baseball.

    There are busch drivers, outlaw drivers, and hired road course guns like Boris Said that race in cup events. They impact the season ending standings but they race under the same rules as the regulars.
    More and more people are coming in tune with viewing NASCAR as a show and accepting that it has become more of a show more so then the racing it is or was.
    Racing is racing. Race car drivers race other race car drivers. There is nothing wrong with that picture unless you think that shouldn't be the case.
     
  6. Cattracker16

    Cattracker16 New Member

    Messages:
    356
    State:
    Wilton Iowa
    personally i don't mind if they race the busch series, it just makes it easier for them to get the low down on how the track is and if they need to change anything on there cup cars. i say more power to them if they can swing it and they have a car owner that will let them run... shoot if they'd like let them run the truck series then busch then nascar.. If it's in there blood they will race anything they can get there hands on goat carts to indy cars..
     
  7. ryang

    ryang Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,380
    State:
    Blacklick, Ohio
    Name:
    Gary
    Mark while I could halfway agree with you as far as being a different series I would have to dissagree with you. Yes they have thier own rules and whatnot but when DEI/Hendricks/Roushe or RJR is competing it is all about the benjimins and they have thier bushwackers out there racing to see how the track is before the big race. Im glad I wasnt the only one to say that they shouldnt race with them.
     
  8. bro_catfish

    bro_catfish New Member

    Messages:
    425
    State:
    Ohio ,Coshocton County
    I dont think they should for one reason. The Nextel drivers have shown what they can do to race at the level they do , I dont doubt that the Bush races are fun to race and to watch but let the upcoming boys do there thing ...they dont need a big name boy showing them up
     
  9. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    Now if you want to make a case based on it's an unfair advantage to race on Saturday for the Nextel race I can go along with that no problem.

    What I dont go along with is the desire to prevent one professional from racing in another series just because of the series he races in makes him supposedly better.

    Ken Schrader has probally made more laps then anyone out there in a race car and those laps aren't all in cup racing.
    He'll jump in a dirt car on a 3/8ths mile track in a heart beat. He doesn't win even most of the time.

    There is a big misconception that the busch series whole purpose in life is to be the minor league of cup racing when in reality it is just another NASCAR series. You have drivers that move up from trucks to cup and cup drivers driving trucks.
    What it boils down to is professional drivers from one series racing professional drivers in another series with all series having different rules, car weights, engines, and handling /power characteristics.
    I dont think any one set of drivers is more talented then the other based on the series he races in but some drivers may be racing on 15 million in sponsor money versus the 7 million of someone else. The faster you go, the more it costs.

    It all boils down to dollars in the end and whatever NASCAR series they race in they hold a Nascar license to race in any NASCAR series.
    How many rookie mistakes in cup have wiped out a quarter of the field? Plenty. You can say the same of veteran drivers and their screwups. You got one choice in the matter. Get out of the car and let somebody else take the wheel.
    Its all about money on Sunday.
     
  10. Fatkat

    Fatkat New Member

    Messages:
    979
    State:
    Blanchester, Ohio
    I agree with What John said.....
     
  11. s_man

    s_man New Member

    Messages:
    3,012
    State:
    south east ohio
    Cup drivers shouldn't be racing in Busch. If a quick look at the top ten finishers in the Busch race doesn't show the Cup drivers are more experienced and better fiananced nothing will. They have won every Busch race so far this year,and dominate the top finishing order. If the same 4 and 5 car Cup teams always win the most Busch funds, eventually all the small operations will have to leave the sport. Where is the opportunity for a single car team using their own money to be successful if they are going aginst multi-million dollar teams just out for extra practice for the sunday race? The Cup drivers should opt out of the Busch series out of pride. They made the big show let someone else have a chance.
     
  12. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    Comparing stock car racing to baseball is like comparing soccer to tennis.
    Professional golfers travel the country and world entering tournaments at all levels of professionalism and talent so different sports dont compare to all sports.
    A baseball team does not pay an entry fee to play against another team nor do they collect a winner's check at the pay window after the game. A race team does not live off of ticket sales. They are funded through sponsors.

    Racing is such a sport that you dont play unless you pay.
    You pay to race in an event and you collect your winnings after the event.
    When you start telling this person or that person they cant race against these people you dont have a sport anymore. You have a scripted show.

    I base all my opinions on stock car racing from where stock car racing came from not where it is headed. I'm old school when it comes to racing. If you can't run with the big dogs stay under the porch.

    The busch drivers I've seen asked the question dont have a problem with it.
    Of course when you put any group of men together you'll have the whiners club amongst them. Maybe those are the ones that expect to win instead of achieving the win.
     
  13. aaronm283

    aaronm283 New Member

    Messages:
    137
    State:
    missouri
    no to me its like a college team playing a high school team
     
  14. ryang

    ryang Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,380
    State:
    Blacklick, Ohio
    Name:
    Gary
    Its the same as Pro's playing in the olympics if you ask me:mad:
     
  15. s_man

    s_man New Member

    Messages:
    3,012
    State:
    south east ohio
    Mark, my problem with this is just about what you stated in your last post. You have busch teams working out of their own garages, after work on their off time, for little or no pay, "like it used to be in the Cup series." Trying to build a reputation win some races and then they get ringers from the Cup come in with 30 million dollar payrolls and years of information in crews and driver knowledge relegating them to the back of the field. If they can't even get in the race how will they develop? This day in age Cup cars are in developement 4 to 6 years before they ever reach the track. How much does that cost? If you can't build a car mon thru fri and race on saturday whats the point. That was how it worked in the beginning. I just don't see the reasoning to let the teams with all the money take over a sport that was started with guys that had nothing but a desire to race and a dream. If you want the Rousch, Hendrick, Penske,...etc racing series to continue I think they need more single car teams in the fold. If we let these high dollar teams continue to grow we might end up with a full Roush vs Hendrick 43 car field in the next twenty years, now how fun would that be? Or how about all 43 cars owned by roush? That would be a great race. One last thing, "Jeff Gordon rules" "Tony Stewart sux"
     
  16. zappaf19

    zappaf19 New Member

    Messages:
    1,574
    State:
    Monticello,IN
    If the nextel boys were banned more "rookies" would have a chance. Which in turn could turn out to be oustanding drivers for Nextel.
    Bill
     
  17. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    So when you ban cup drivers from busch you got to ban truck drivers from busch and cup and busch drivers from trucks and hooters cup and God forbid a busch driver is called in to fill in for a cup driver because he wouldnt be worthy or talented enough to drive with the big boys in the big show.

    What have you got then? a bunch of drivers with the chance to go no where.
    Playing God with who the competition is in a sport like racing defeats the purpose of the sport.

    Rather then view these series as "leagues" view it for what it is. Two of many racing series that just happen to be governed by the same sanctioning body. NASCAR.

    Now I'm curious to see which members are going to be banned from fishing at the national gathering because I have heve never fished Kentucky Lake.
    Sounds stupid dont it? It is.

    You can take a perceived problem and make 30 real problems by what someone deems as a solution to the perceived problem.

    Either way, when you ban a cup driver from racing in a series it wont stop there. It cant stop there if NASCAR is attempting to level an unlevel playing field.
    Next you'll have to ban a bush driver because his sponsor enables him to own a lear jet and pay his pit crew where the rookie busch driver primarily funded by a merchant in his hometown and fielding his own ride cant pay his crew and drives night and day to make the races.
    Where exactly do you propose to stop leveling this uneven unfair field?
     
  18. Cattracker16

    Cattracker16 New Member

    Messages:
    356
    State:
    Wilton Iowa
    Sorry but i gotta go with mark on this one...
     
  19. kbgrillin

    kbgrillin New Member

    Messages:
    862
    State:
    Tennessee
    Stock car racing is a sport just like other sports. You have to advance to the next level. You don't see drivers starting out in the Nextel Cup series and then going to the Busch series. Thats because Nextel Cup drivers are the ELITE of NASCAR!!!
     
  20. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    Elite as in paid more, watched more, and chased around by star struck fans more.
    I dont think this brand of Elite has as much to do with talent as it does with being able to court a cup owner and being able to sell yourself.

    Loy Allen Jr. barely left the 3/8ths mile wake county speedway to race Arca for a wee bit before he made his debut in cup winning the pole at Daytona. Of course his dad buying a condo in turn one at Charlotte next to Jr. Johnson's played a big role in that.
    Mike Skinner didnt move up from Busch. He was running cup well before he landed a regular job with RCR driving trucks by building his own Daytona cars in a tobacco barn. The days when he had long hair and wore flip flops on pit road talking junk to anyone and everyone.
    Steve Kinser from the world of outlaws stepped right into a cup car a few years back even though he failed miserably at stock cars period. He couldnt get the feel for a car that would go through a turn straight opposed to back wheels first.
    I dont recall Bobby Hamilton moving up from Busch but I could be wrong.
    That is just to name a few.

    Of course many cup owners own Busch rides also. They spend their time in Busch getting seat time at tracks they've never run but the talent is already there or they wouldnt be there. Those guys hired to run Busch already have their ticket punched if they are running for an owner with cup teams. In most cases its waiting for a vacancy. When you see talent you hire it and put it somewhere so the competition doesnt get it these days.

    Its no longer good ol boy racing, it is corporate racing.
    You either got the money to run or you dont.