BOC to MDC: Weak Process!

Discussion in 'LOCAL MISSOURI TALK' started by cubedweller, Jun 27, 2007.

  1. cubedweller

    cubedweller New Member

    Messages:
    454
    State:
    MO
    I don't know about the rest of you, but I like to get my money's worth when I buy something. I'm not paying for a full pie if I only get 1/2 of it.

    But if you purchase a Missouri Fishing Permit after March 1 but before December 1, you are not getting your money's worth. It's as simple as that.


    Myself, I always purchase my permit in March because my permit says it expires at the end of February. I thought that was because I purchased it in March. But a friend of mine (a new angler) purchased a permit in October and it also expired in February. WHAT? He paid $12 just like I did but only got to use it for less than 5 months!?

    I called the MO Dept of Conservation in Jefferson City to discuss this with them, and their explanation for this was that it was a "seasonal" regulation. I argued that there was no season for the activity of fishing, only for the harvest of specific species in specific locales (i.e. Black Bass from Ozark streams). The representative then suggested that the vendor of the permit should've informed the purchaser that the permit would only be effective for a short time -- and that if they wait until Dec 1, it would be good until Feb 2008. Since a percentage of the revenue is shared with the retailer, I highly doubt one would say "WAIT! Don't buy it!" and in this case they didn't. The process of getting a permit is mostly electronic, I added -- and the business rules and associated logic were controlled solely by the MDC. I was told that it was too difficult for the MDC to keep track of cutoff dates (which they currently use) and/or to pro-rate the amount of the permit in conjunction with the remainder of the "season".

    What the representative failed to explain is that this isn't "seasonal", it's based upon a "Permit Year" which runs from March 1 - March 1 ...and it's been this way since 1996. I think it's time to change this, as there is NO discernible benefit that I can see from it.

    So here is my No-Brainer Solution: Have a permit that is good until one year from the date of purchase. The state gets their revenue, and the angler gets what they paid for.


    I think they thought I was crazy. I was advised that I could recommend this in writing to John Smith, who is the Chairman of the Regulations Committee for the MO Department of Conservation. His mailing address is below:

    John Smith - Regulations Committee Chairman
    c/o MO Department of Conservation
    PO BOX 180
    Jefferson City, MO 65102


    I don't have any illusion that I'm doing anything other than barking at the moon here -- but it'd be really nice if someone else could also write Mr. Smith and and make a similar recommendation (or a better one). I'm open to suggestions.
    Keep these tidbits in mind:For Fiscal Year 2006, hunting and fishing permits made up approximately 17.07% ($28.1 million) of the MDC's annual revenue ($164.7 million).

    60.15% of their revenue ($99 million) was derived from a 1/8 cent sales tax.
    Commercial/Miscellaneous permits made up 0.98% ($1.6 million)

    ZERO modifications have been made to the MDC's Electronic Point-of-Sale system since 1996.

    -AND-

    Phase III of the MDC's Electronic Point-of-Sale initiative is about to begin and they are (according to their literature) accepting bids to see who can meet their requirements to keep the system running without interruption. This is due to the separation that occurred between Automatic Licensing Systems and Central Bank. In other words, the time is ripe for change.
     
  2. Dreadnaught

    Dreadnaught New Member

    Messages:
    5,444
    State:
    Henderson,Ky
    I hate to rain on your parade here but, Every state I have ever lived in had a cut of date. It is usually on the last day of Feb., this allows them to keep track of things better. Could you imagine what it would be like having to pull up to every boat and handle every license that each person had to make sure it was current? Right now, all they have to do is see the year that is printed on it and they are on their way!!!

    I don't have a problem with buying a fishing license on or around the date that they go on sale!!!

    This of course is JMHO!!!
     

  3. bluejay

    bluejay Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,507
    State:
    Napoleon, Mo.
    Do like I do. I get mine for Christmas every year and it's good until Feb 28th the year after next. I understand there process and I think it works ok. Wouldn't make any difference if they were new Jan1st each year. I buy a Kansas tag every year and it is still only good till Jan 1st no matter when I buy it. By the way I will get my lifetime permit for Christmas this year. The last one I will buy in the state of Mo. Even if I move to another state it will always be good in Mo.:smile2: If you want to complain direct your mail to John Hoskins at the same address in Jeff City. He is the director.
     
  4. cubedweller

    cubedweller New Member

    Messages:
    454
    State:
    MO
    Why should it matter when you purchase the permit? The date is completely of no consequence since there is no "fishing season" per se. If I buy one today, it should be good until today next year. That's my point.

    BTW, if you buy yours in December of the previous year, why are you getting extra months for free?

    (December 1st -> December 1st) + (January 1st -> end of February) = 14 months ($12)

    (November 30th -> End of February) = 3 months and 1 day ($12).

    I could care less about the $12, it's the principle. Either pro-rate the amount of the permit or give me what I paid for.
     
  5. micus

    micus New Member

    Messages:
    524
    State:
    Lake St. L
    They changed it to what it is to cut time & effort (money) spent on the process. As long as they treat all people the same, I see no reason to complain. Missouri has the best Conservation dept. in the country. Since they tell you up front what the deal is, it's up to the individual to decide when to buy their permit.
     
  6. Eithne

    Eithne New Member

    Messages:
    408
    State:
    OK
    Wow, a $12 license. I had to pay $31.00 for mine. Only thing you can get for around $12 is a 1-day resident license for $10. Had to pay that to go fishing in KY too, per day. Maybe I can get the PA Fish Commission to take a look at Missouri for some tips. :tounge_out:

    I guess it's all a matter of how you choose to look at things...
     
  7. dougc

    dougc Active Member

    Messages:
    1,711
    State:
    Independen
    You're trying to make it too complicated...

    It would be a waste of the Game Wardens time to check for specific dates on you license. You're fishing in 2007, so you show him a 2007 license. Pretty simple, eh?
     
  8. BKS72

    BKS72 New Member

    Messages:
    3,361
    State:
    East of KC
    I can't complain, I pay $75 every year for a KS non-resident hunting permit(sometimes two if I go after the new year). I buy one in Nov. when pheasant season comes in and another in Jan. after the permit year if I want to go then.

    I don't have a problem with the MO conservation department. I've spent a lot of time on the phone with them lately and if this rule helps them have enough resources to answer my (and everyone elses) questions in addition to their normal duties, I've got no problem with it. If I'm going to spend time to aggravate them about something, it'll be about harvest sizes and limits or hook numbers when fishing for catfish.......

    I guess my point is to pick your battles, like you say, it's only a dollar a month or so...:wink:
     
  9. cubedweller

    cubedweller New Member

    Messages:
    454
    State:
    MO
    After apparently suffering a blinding stroke and typing hundreds of keystrokes in a foreign language, I want to make something abundantly clear:

    1) I have no problem with the MDC. They do a great job. I mean that.
    2) My complaint is based on the principle of getting all that you paid for.

    So while we're paused and bathing in my blithering idiocy -- let's play a little game of put-the-shoe-on-the-other-foot:

    You just signed up for cable service on the 27th of the month. The cable company says you need to pay for the whole month, but you are only able to use the remaining three days of the month. They will neither a) pro-rate the amount due, nor b) apply your full month's payment until the 27th of the next month.

    Where do you folks stand on this? I don't mean to be so argumentative or stubborn. Ok, so that's a little lie -- I'm proudly both of those. :smile2:
     
  10. BKS72

    BKS72 New Member

    Messages:
    3,361
    State:
    East of KC
    Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you had a problem with DNR, but I do see where you're coming from. I guess for me it's just one of those deals where it's only $12 and I like to fish, so I'll do/pay whatever within reason. You're exactly right, if it were my $40/month cable bill or my (ungodly) cellphone bill, I would be upset, but I guess I never thought about it.
     
  11. MRR

    MRR New Member

    Messages:
    4,947
    State:
    Louisiana,Mo.
    If I'm correct on this I believe just because you get your Lic for a XMas gift they still don't go into affect till Mar1st. The other lic is still good, Explain if I'm wrong on this.
     
  12. GaryF

    GaryF New Member

    Messages:
    3,649
    State:
    O.P., KS
    I've started to post to this a couple of times but got sidetracked. I do think Alex has a point, but I also agree with Brandon about picking your battles. After Missouri there is Kansas and 30-40 other states that do it exactly the same way... Also, the states that prorate their licenses tend to be the more expensive ones, so be careful what you ask for as it may lead to a complete reevaluation of the fee structures.
     
  13. catfisherman60

    catfisherman60 New Member

    Messages:
    1,348
    State:
    Greenwood AR.
    In Arkansas $10.50 Is for 1 year from date of sale. I like it that way.
     
  14. TeamWhiskers

    TeamWhiskers New Member

    Messages:
    536
    State:
    Missouri
    Try keeping up with 8 to 10 states a year. Then you have to make the decision on a 3, 5 or 7 day or buying an out of state yearly if you think you will be fishing there again.
     
  15. cubedweller

    cubedweller New Member

    Messages:
    454
    State:
    MO
    Thanks to all who replied. I'm still going to write the letter, and it's going to be crafted carefully and with respect. I don't want them thinking I'm criticizing the whole kielbasa.

    Folks - even when our viewpoints conflict, I respect of you and your opinions (even when it seems like I'm being unreasonably stubborn).
     
  16. Dreadnaught

    Dreadnaught New Member

    Messages:
    5,444
    State:
    Henderson,Ky
    Twelve Dollars:waaaht: !!!!!!!
    One could only wish that they were 12.00 here!!!!!!! We pay 25.00 a year here and I figured it was fairly cheap, man was I wrong!!!

    Heck!!! Twelve Dollars!!! That adds up to alot of money, to be exact 1.00 a month. If you buy it 6 months into the year, it will be 2.00 a month. I can see where this would make you a little angry!!! Almost makes you want to fish twice as much to get your money's woth don't it, LOL!!!
    I firgure if you buy them when they become available, you ARE getting your money's worth!!! A fishing License is just that, A License, not tags on a truck. Sorry to dissagree with you on this point but, I had to say what i thought!!!
     
  17. Catgirl

    Catgirl New Member

    Messages:
    13,546
    That's the way it is in North Carolina :big_smile_2:.
     
  18. rich-online

    rich-online New Member

    Messages:
    343
    State:
    California
    Out here in California, the annual license is for the calendar year (1 January - 31 December). Since each year's license is a different color, it makes it easier for the rangers to tell if you have a valid license. While it would be nice if they could prorate the cost, the current system does keep things simpler.

    Just as a note, the one day license here costs about $12.

    -- Rich
     
  19. cubedweller

    cubedweller New Member

    Messages:
    454
    State:
    MO
    Vince, ya got me on that one...I can't say I've ever had that dilemma.
     
  20. Kutter

    Kutter New Member

    Messages:
    5,379
    State:
    Arnold, MO
    There a few things I disagree with the MDC on. This aint big enough to be one of them.

    You are purchasing a license that entitles you to fish between March 1 and the end of February. It is not the MDC's fault if you buy it later in the year any more than if you don't get time to go fishing that year, so you want a refund.

    By the way, I just sold a car that I had relicensed a few weeks ago, including getting the safety inspection and emissions inspection. Am I getting a refund? NO!

    MRR, I believe you are correct, buying it in DEC does not mean you can use it before March.