Beware of Incrementalism!

Discussion in 'LOCAL NORTH CAROLINA TALK' started by Bryan8552, Jan 9, 2008.

  1. Bryan8552

    Bryan8552 New Member

    Messages:
    422
    State:
    nc
  2. price

    price New Member

    Messages:
    175
    State:
    North Carolina
    The limits on jug hooks, trotline hooks, setlines is common in many, if not most, states except NC. When I tell people that I meet in other states when I fish all across the country about the laws (or lack of laws in NC) toward catfish they think I am telling a lie. The most common answer that I get is "they would put you in jail if you did that here." My response is that sensible people/wildlife agencies in other states have rules in place, and not let things be a free for all. I used to think this was just a "deep south" thing (I have lived in the deep south all my life), but other states in the South have implemented restrictions or even made catfish a gamefish. As time goes on NC will change with the times. SC does not even allow jug fishing on most of their lakes, and neither does WV, and TN limits it to 50 hooks/jugs. My question is always are all these states "nuts" and linked to PETA or is NC just behind the times?
     

  3. Plowboy411

    Plowboy411 New Member

    Messages:
    918
    State:
    Georgia
    It's the same in Georgia. no limit on how many fish or the fish size.no traps, trout lines have a max limit of 50 hooks.
     
  4. Quint

    Quint New Member

    Messages:
    293
    State:
    N.C.
    Jug fishing is an abused method of catfish harvesting. On Buggs Island lake it has gotten way out of hand. The biggest cat of 2006 was caught on a jug hook. It was not recovered by the owner though, it was recovered by a striper fisherman a few days later. The owner did have his personal information on the jug but its not required anymore under NC law. There should be a 20 per boat limit, you should be required to stay in sight of the jugs at all times, and hawking hours should be set from sunrise to sunset.
     
  5. Bryan8552

    Bryan8552 New Member

    Messages:
    422
    State:
    nc
    I coudn't agree more that jugs are abused!

    Many would say that rod and reel fishing is an abused method of fishing and that a one rod per boat limit should be set and only allowed from sunrise to sunset. Where does it end? No fishing?

    There's certainly no shortage on cats at Buggs and noone can say what the biggest cat was in any given year. Not everyone brags about their catch! Some are very secretive.
     
  6. WylieCat

    WylieCat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,177
    State:
    NC
    I have nothing against jug fishing and think it should remain legal.

    With that said I think it should be more tightly controlled and this sould be done by the number of jugs that can be fished. Management of 50-100 jugs by one person is not practical, safe, or environmentally friendly.

    If the juggers can not control and manage themselves, then others will be forced to step in and do so.

    Furthermore I do not think they should be allowed to fish them at night. Placing unlit floating objects with rope or string attached presents a safety and navigation hazard to the none fishing community. It is nearly impossible to track where they go at night, especially when it is windy.

    Many of the jugs are recovered, and many are not. Fish are never found and left to die on the hooks. The jugs that are not retrieved clutter the shoreline and the may become wrapped in the props of unsuspecting boaters causing hundreds if not thousands of dollars in damage.

    "...Where does it end? No fishing?..."


    No, not even close. It does end where sound fisheries management practices meet up with others ability to enjoy the fisheries and waterways safely.

    I feel safe in saying "the sky is not falling".
     
  7. Ghost River

    Ghost River New Member

    Messages:
    466
    State:
    Carolina
    I was right there with you until you got to the part about public saftey and tangleing props causing thousands of dollars wrth of damage. Now lets be realistic here. how much damage can a gallon bleach jug do??? Were not talking about 55 gallon drums here.
    My duck hunting aboat is a 14ft. jon with a 25 merc and you'd better be on your toes when you run that sucker. She'll fly but she'll get away from you too and get you wet. Even it could hit a milk jug and not feel it.
     

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  8. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    Its the fishing line, masonry twine or whatever else is used for a drop line that will cause thousands in damage.
    If you own an outboard you should be taking that prop off routinely.
    When the prop shaft seal goes, the grease goes, the lower unit goes.

    I was doing some bank fishing one night a few years ago and an inconsiderate boater ran right over my lines not 10 feet from the bank.
    He hooked one of my outfits, I hollered , he was deaf evidently.
    He motored across the river.
    An hour later he tried to motor back. It took him awhile to cross.
    Eventually it got to the point he had to get out and into the water and pull his boat the rest of the way. It was an old 17 foot or so walk through with an 85 Johnson on it.
    It would crank and cut off when put in gear.

    He had that thing backed up to the ramp for about 2 hours tinkering. I knew what the deal was but I was curious none the less. I walked by the fella looked at his dilemma.
    2 foot of 50 pound Ande and an 8/0 Gamakatzu put that 85 Johnson to bed.
    He wont going to fix it without pulling a prop and nothing to pull it with.
    That hook had really made a mess of things getting wedged inbetween the prop and the lower unit.
     
  9. Ghost River

    Ghost River New Member

    Messages:
    466
    State:
    Carolina
    Yes i knew what Dieter was talking about but have my doubts that masonry twine routinely does thousands of dollars worth of damage. Aggravating, yeah probably. But real money damage??? Come on

    Look, you fella's pushing for tighter limits and such would be best served to stick with the facts and the biology aspect of this arguement. Wild allegations like "public safety" and "thousands of dollars worth of damages" are all speculative and appeal to the emotions. You might get these guys on the board riled up but the NCWRC are not going to be impressed with an arguement like that. Now if you can provide pictures and receipts then I'd try it.
     
  10. WylieCat

    WylieCat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,177
    State:
    NC
    "...When the prop shaft seal goes, the grease goes, the lower unit goes..."

    Bingo! We have a winner. :wink:

    Its a quiet killer. :smile2:

    A new lower unit ain't cheap. Even if the entire unit does not need to be replaced it still isn't cheap, especially for the casual boater that is paying a dealer to do their repair.

    Is it an emotional argument? Sure, but only if you are a jugger, or someone who has had their boat damaged by the untended fishing lines. Some laws and "some fishing methods that are currently in place are archaic", and thats a quote from a member of the NCWRC at last nights meeting...read the minutes...its in there.

    Fishing practices of a few, especially for financial gain, that infringe on the fishing and recreational practices of many, are probably not good for the entire fishing or boating community.
     
  11. Mac-b

    Mac-b Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    19,803
    State:
    North Caro
    Name:
    Mac
    Bro. Colt, you need to talk to a boat mechanic, he will tell you in a heart beat that it happens. Twine/fishing line creates friction and this breaks the bottom seal. Cost of repairs can be from $1,200 to $2,200. Mac
     
  12. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    The only problem I have with jugs is an accountability issue.
    At the minimum, If I'm going to go throw jugs out in public water I should be required to put a name, address, license number, etc. on them.
    Thats going to serve a few purposes.

    For one its probally going to automatically drop the number of jugs fishermen use from one standpoint. He's going to want to find them all.

    I feel the same way about limblines.
    There wouldnt be a limbline hanging from every other tree abandoned on the Cape Fear if you had to put your name and address on them.

    I dont have a problem with any method of fishing as long as there is accountability built into the method.

    If I'm sitting in my boat fishing I'm accountable. I've got boat numbers and I've got a license and registration on me for the activity of boating and fishing.

    If I set 25 limb lines and throw out a dozen jugs and run 5 miles upstream to fish with a rod and reel , who is accountable for all that gear I've thrown out and left 5 miles behind?
    Thats my problem.

    If the guy sitting over here on a boat with a rod and reel is being held accountable, the guy that throws out 1 or 100 jugs and disappears needs to be held accountable also.

    Not saying at all that any or all juggers are bad. I've run jugs too for fun and will again I imagine. Keep everyone honest if you are going to keep 1 or 2 honest.
     
  13. catfishrollo

    catfishrollo New Member

    Messages:
    6,894
    State:
    Ohio
    them gamakatzu's are some nice hooks mark, and tough ones at that lol...serves him right....:smile2: rollo
     
  14. DANZIG

    DANZIG New Member

    Messages:
    6,672
    State:
    West Virginia
    "I was doing some bank fishing one night a few years ago...."

    Gotta love that instant Karma!! LOL!!:wink::smile2:
    ------------------------------------

    My 2 cents on the jugs, trotlines, limb lines,,,,

    If you need to put some in the freezer, fine and dandy. When I was young and just starting a family, we were poor as church mice and the fish I caught were a major part of our diet. We still eat quite a bit, but mostly just for "gourmet" food now.

    BUT, how many do you really need in the freezer? As a "sport" I just don't see the attraction.



    Like Mark said, name and address.
    It is the law here in WV, but widely ignored. Abandoned lines are common and if they are not marked, I cut them. Not to be mean, I pick up wads of abandoned mono on the bank too. Both are an unsightly hazard.
     
  15. Bryan8552

    Bryan8552 New Member

    Messages:
    422
    State:
    nc
    "The sky is not falling"

    That's my entire argument about the release of the catfish for the people who want to keep them to eat. There's nowhere I've ever fished in my life that don't have plenty of good size cats.

    As for the lower unit damage by mono, how much of it takes place from rod and reel fishermen losing their line? I know that I lose plenty, constantly. If the argument against jugs is about lower unit damage then all fishing should be stopped. It's plain to see that the argument is not about the lower units, it's simply an emotional one about saving the beloved catfish. When it comes to the numbers of trophy cats in NC, you're right, the sky is definitely not falling! There are boat motor mechanics making a living in states that don't allow jug fishing also.
     
  16. WylieCat

    WylieCat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,177
    State:
    NC
    "...There's nowhere I've ever fished in my life that don't have plenty of good size cats..."

    Thats a good point, and true in many places. My only question is whether or or not the entire growth spectrum is being fairly represented in the lakes and rivers, or have certain size classes of fish been over harvested through unregulated fishing. Having plenty of fish is one thing, but having all of them being small ones in the 25th percentile of the growth chart may not be best for the fishery.

    The good news for North Carolina is that the research is on the way, and if you are at the NCCATS tournament this weekend you will see it first hand.
     
  17. price

    price New Member

    Messages:
    175
    State:
    North Carolina
    I had a lower unit damaged when I hit a trotline in TN right below the surface, and cost me 500$ to fix. I have also replaced 2 tolling motors that had jug line that I did not know about too late in the prop area. The 2 trolling motors were about 200$ a piece. That is close to 1000$ that they have cost me. My family and I also spend 2-3 days a year going around LKN and removing old limblines (none marked-rusted) and jugs (not marked) left everywhere. We normally can collect 2-3 huge garbage bag fulls whenever we go, and we do not even come close to seeing the whole lake. More times than not I will find a catfish or striper miles away from the "fishing" area and no "fisherman" even close that they have lost.
     
  18. Bryan8552

    Bryan8552 New Member

    Messages:
    422
    State:
    nc
    This is the same question I have, but as with you, it is only a question. The answer will be different on different bodies of water.