Below Truman dam

Discussion in 'MISSOURI LAKES / RESERVOIRS TALK' started by sherdan, Jul 11, 2006.

  1. sherdan

    sherdan New Member

    Messages:
    40
    State:
    Lebanon, Missouri
    I'm off to Pomme all next week, but gonna sneak over below Truman dam one night. I'm not going to drag my boat over there but planning to fish off the bank. I was wondering if anyone has tried cut perch and if they'd had any luck with it? It works real well below bagnell, better than even shad for the bigger ones. Any advise would be helpful, hadn't fished there off the banks in several years and in my boat only once. thanks
     
  2. Taliesin

    Taliesin New Member

    Messages:
    680
    State:
    Missouri
    I usually fish below Truman Dam and my best bite ever came on whole, live drum (about 7"). Shad does really well with "perch" a decent second. I'm not sure about how far away from the dam you will be fishing though. I am usually right up next to the no-fishing area.
     

  3. Hannibal Mike

    Hannibal Mike New Member

    Messages:
    1,454
    State:
    Hannibal, MO
    I have fished below the dam a few times, but I really enjoy seeing all the fishermen and their techniques. One guy had two 15' ugly sticks with abu 7000's. He could really launch his shad to the middle of the river. I did not see him catch anything, but the casts were interesting. There are also some excellent shad net throws. It is not unusual to see someone throw 20' or more. Perhaps one of the more interesting was a young man that just held the net in his right hand suspended and tossed it underhanded like someone bowling or pitching a softball. Boom, it just sailed out and opened nicely. I could not do it and he was nice, saying, "well, I just started throwing this ways". He did not seem to roll or twist his wrist, but it sure looked easy when he did it. The people seem very pleasant and share what they know about fishing. Also saw some interesting PVC rod holders that could be jammed into the riprap and protect the handle of your rod. Stop in sometime just to visit the people or fish. Also, the folks at the store down the road have been nice and informative. Hannibal Mike
     
  4. meat_hunter

    meat_hunter New Member

    Messages:
    94
    State:
    Clarksville, TN
    me and my brother went and we did catch diddly except a bunch of gars but we have had really good luck on shad sides and shad heads.
     
  5. sherdan

    sherdan New Member

    Messages:
    40
    State:
    Lebanon, Missouri
    Well I think I'm gonna give a shot about Tuesday night. Which side would you all say would be the best, handicap side or the otherside? I'm gonna take my cast net for shad but want to try my perch also. I like using a good size perch, scaling him and then filleting him then putting one or both sides on a 7/0 circle hook. It works real well below bagnell dam it should do well at truman also I would think.
     
  6. Taliesin

    Taliesin New Member

    Messages:
    680
    State:
    Missouri
    20'?!?!? I couldn't control a monstrosity like that. I have 15' MH and 12' H Ugly Stiks.

    I am still new at using these long rods and I am using spinning reels instead of baitcasters, so my distance still isn't where i want it to be. More practice will get me there.

    the night of the 8th I caught a 7# hybrid on topwater, a 7# drum on cut shad, and about half a dozen gar on both live and cut shad. Along with no catfish.
     
  7. Taliesin

    Taliesin New Member

    Messages:
    680
    State:
    Missouri
    I'm not sure which side would be better really. The otherside hasn't been doing to well for me lately, but I can usually get shad up near the no fishing area.

    Watch out using perch for bait. You have to know your species on that since bluegill and green sunfish (and bullheads) have to be 5" or less to use for bait.
     
  8. Mr.T

    Mr.T Active Member

    Messages:
    2,554
    State:
    MO
    Any bluegill/sunfish/bullhead over 5" caught in a throw net must be released immediately; all other fish greater than 12" caught in a throw net must be released immediately except that there's no length limit and no posession limit on bighead carp, common carp, goldfish, grass carp and silver carp caught via throw net.

    Non-game fish of any size, caught by the methods permitted for them (pole and line, longbow, trotline, limbline, throwline, and even falconry!) can be used for bait.

    See 3 CSR 10-6.550 and 3 CSR 10-6.605 http://www.sos.mo.gov/adrules/csr/current/3csr/3c10-6.pdf

    So feel free to use all the big bluegill you want, provided you didn't catch them in your throw net!
     
  9. Taliesin

    Taliesin New Member

    Messages:
    680
    State:
    Missouri
    Quite true... I won't use them above 5" even if I caught them normally because I have a throw net out. Don't even want to be accused of having caught them with the net.
     
  10. Taliesin

    Taliesin New Member

    Messages:
    680
    State:
    Missouri
    Good catch on that. The other pamphlet they give out is confusing on this point.

    Good thing I "always" follow those rules anyway.



    ok, ok, ok... I cut up a 13" skipjack once.

    And the lack of size on carp, etc. is new as of this year.
     
  11. spoonfish

    spoonfish New Member

    Messages:
    3,780
    State:
    Warsaw, Mo.
    I've allways thought it was 5 inches or below, regardless of how they were caught. Makes ya wonder how there going to measure them if you just have a head or mid section on or the tail is cut off..... :wink:
    I just follow the 5 in. rule so I'm safe either way.
     
  12. Mr.T

    Mr.T Active Member

    Messages:
    2,554
    State:
    MO
    Well, the wildlife code conflicts with itself. Refer to the PDF file in the link from my pervious post.

    We all agree that Bluegill are not a game fish, right?

    If that's correct, then they are regulated under 6.550 "Other Fish" -- and item (3) under that section says I can use fish caught under that section as live bait.

    Pole and line is one of the permitted means of catching fish under 6.550, but throw net, seine, etc. is not.

    But then under 6.605 "Live Bait" they tell you that bluegill over 5" caught under the methods of the Live Bait rule have to be released.

    And then they royally screw things up by listing "Pole and Line" as a permitted method for catching live bait.

    So either 6.605 trumps 6.550 when it comes to bluegill, etc. or the two sections are unintentionally in conflict with each other. I'm betting on the latter.

    I've tried to get someone at Jeff City to clarify this for me, but they stop listening as soon as you say "5 inch bluegill" so it's become a waste of my time. I wanted to point out the conflict between the two sections I've quoted above but again, they stop listening. I don't think any of the 2 people I talked to looked any farther than the "Summary of Fishing Regulations" booklet, which is the "dumbed down" version of the actual wildlife code.

    So, I don't concede (yet) that the rules, as written, limit me to a 5" bluegill as bait.

    But I also have no doubt that I'd get a ticket if I got caught using one, no matter whether that's what the rules say or not. I could probably fight it in court and maybe even get someone to change the wording of the rule, but I think it'd be more fun to just go fishing instead.
     
  13. GaryF

    GaryF New Member

    Messages:
    3,649
    State:
    O.P., KS
    When the rules get this hard to understand, it's time for a rewrite!

    So if I catch a bluegill that is 6" long and cut it up, is it still considered live bait? What if I keep it for dinner, but it dies on the lake shore... Can I use it for bait then? Can I bowfish a big bluegill and use it for bait? I'm being a little bit silly, but the way the rull is written just leaves you looking for wiggle room.

    Why can't they just say "Under no circumstance shall a bluegill, green sunfish, or bullhead more then five inchs (5") long, in whole or in part, be used for bait" Wouldn't that be easier to understand?
     
  14. Taliesin

    Taliesin New Member

    Messages:
    680
    State:
    Missouri
    That's the ticket... If you want to use bait over 5" just don't use green sunfish, bluegill, or bullhead. I DO use a 6" pumpkinseed on occassion.
    If you want bait bigger than 12", stick to carp.

    Avoid the question and just fish.
     
  15. sherdan

    sherdan New Member

    Messages:
    40
    State:
    Lebanon, Missouri
    Thanks guys now I'm totally confused! LOL Will watch the lenghts of them to be on the safe side, I try to always play by the rules. Thanks again for the info I thought there was a lenght limit thought.
     
  16. safetybass

    safetybass New Member

    Messages:
    299
    State:
    Missouri
    Bluegills and sunfish ARE gamefish. That's where you're getting confused Mr. T.
     
  17. Taliesin

    Taliesin New Member

    Messages:
    680
    State:
    Missouri
    Hmm... Where is the list of game fish at?

    I know in the other pamphlet it lists it as a game fish, but not in this one?
     
  18. Mr.T

    Mr.T Active Member

    Messages:
    2,554
    State:
    MO
    I'm from Missouri. So Show Me! :big_smile: (The link to the wildlife code is about 6 or 8 posts upstream.)

    If you dig through it, you'll find that they have regulations for lots of species - bass, trout, walleye, catfish, etc. - but none for perch, bluegill, sunfish or their variants. So that leaves them as an "Other Fish" and subject to the limits in 6.550. In fact, the *only* specific mention of sunfish or bluegill is in the section on Live Bait (6.605)
     
  19. safetybass

    safetybass New Member

    Messages:
    299
    State:
    Missouri
    I stand corrected, and I apologize. The new regulations (not that new, but newer than what I remembered) define "game fish" for Missouri State Regulations (10 CSR 3.10-20, Definitions) as the specific species they have established specific requirements for, omitting sunfish to the category of "Other Fish." You are not allowed to fish for "Other Fish" with a casting net. However, if you catch bluegill with rod and reel, ANY SIZE BLUEGILL MAY BE USED AS BAIT. This actually applies to any of the "Other Fish". Only if they are caught in a throw net are there size restrictions on the non-game fish "Other Fish" that can be used for bait. So you can rod'n reel all the 6 inch bluegill you want and use them for bait. Again, I stand corrected!:embarassed:
     
  20. Mr.T

    Mr.T Active Member

    Messages:
    2,554
    State:
    MO
    Good find, Larry - I hadn't thought to look for a specific definition of "Game Fish" - I just inferred it from the regs.

    The only little monkey wrench in this whole discussion, however, is that under the "Live Bait" section (6.605), they list "pole and line" as an acceptable method, and then they go on to specify length limits on bluegill, etc. taken "by the methods prescribed in this rule."

    If you catch a 6" bluegill on a pole and line, were you fishing under the "Other Fish" rules or under the "Live Bait" rules? I sure don't konw the answer to that. The "Other Fish" rules says you can use it as bait; the "Live Bait" rules say you can't.