Baiting Doves for hunters

Discussion in 'Small Game Hunting' started by metalfisher, Sep 3, 2006.

  1. metalfisher

    metalfisher New Member

    Messages:
    188
    State:
    Arkansas
    This subject has always been a sore spot with me and I wonder if others may feel the same way.

    Consider two situations ....

    A farmer with several thousand acres decided to make money by charging people to shoot doves. So he designated about 20 acres as his dove field. He had his farm hands use his farm equipment to work the ground and planted sunflowers on it.

    A week or so before season opened, he worked up some surrounding ground and seeded it with wheat, not taking a lot of trouble to get all the seed into the ground.

    A few days before opening day, he had his workers mow strips through the sunflowers scattering the seed onto the ground. As the sunflowers were eaten, he had more mowed.

    Opening day, he charged $20 per gun to access the field. Before it was a finished, let's guesstimate he had 200 hunters which took a limit of 15 doves. That is an estimate of 3000 doves shot plus cripples.

    All this was and is absolutely legal.

    Now take another scenerio.

    A small farmer with only 40 acres decides he will make a small spot for him and his kids to shoot. So he works up a small spot about 100 yards square and scatters one bushel of wheat mixed with sunflowers.

    He and his sons take 100 doves all together.

    The farmer and his sons are guilty of shooting over a baited field.

    Now what is wrong with this picture? If you have money, it appears that if you bait a big enough area, baiting has a different definition.

    Does anyone but me think this is wrong?

    Robert
     
  2. FishMan

    FishMan New Member

    Messages:
    2,293
    State:
    Tennessee
    I agree with you, but I limited knowledge of the law
     

  3. 223reload

    223reload New Member

    Messages:
    10,798
    State:
    Oklahoma
    dont know your game laws but here in New Mexico any type of grain placed to attract game is illegal
     
  4. metalfisher

    metalfisher New Member

    Messages:
    188
    State:
    Arkansas
    The problem is the regulations. Doves and ducks for that matter, can be baited if it is done with "normal farming practices" to quote the game warden.

    So, anyone that can afford it can plant as much bait crop as they want if it is a normal farming practice.

    Dumping a gallon bucket of wheat is not a normal farming practice, but, planting 40 acres of milo, corn and sunflowers is normal farming. It doesn't matter if you mow them down and leave them in the field.

    That is the point that bothers me. If the crop is planted for the exact purpose of being mowed to attract birds, it is baiting and should be illegal.

    But, it is not. The guy that mows a 40 acre field at 30+ bushel and acre to bring in doves is law abiding, where as the guy that dumps a gallon of wheat is a criminal.

    That is just plain wrong.

    Robert
     
  5. slimepig

    slimepig New Member

    Messages:
    666
    State:
    Kerrville Texas
    ive baited fields all my life whether it be for birds, waterfowl or deer n have yet to get any ticket. guess the laws on the books, but unless a game warden saw me throw out the grain, i doubt he could say that i baited the field and actually get a jury to convict. hey acorns fall off of trees n the deer love em. so I guess i should stay away from oak motts because it could be considered that i put the acorns there n they didnt fall off the trees?
    sounds like a law courtesy of the danged tree huggers!
    BTW, theres lots of acres of rice fields on the coast of texas that are planted more to attract geese than the harvest of the rice!
     
  6. metalfisher

    metalfisher New Member

    Messages:
    188
    State:
    Arkansas
    Yep, a lot of fields are planted to attract birds for hunters.

    Robert
     
  7. 223reload

    223reload New Member

    Messages:
    10,798
    State:
    Oklahoma
    well you know that they have to bait everything in TX cause they got to get the deer to get over 50 lbs right? just kiddin i personally think that its immoral if i have to [tie down game ] just to be sucessfull why bother to me thats why its called hunting and thats why i havent harvested a deer in 6 years lol
     
  8. derbycitycatman

    derbycitycatman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,296
    State:
    Kentucky
    I do see a small difference in planting and dumping. Like they said normal farming practices not dumping in just one spot. Disease transmission is less likely through farming practices. why didnt the guy just plant his 40 acres and he would have been fine, right? or am I missing something?
     
  9. metalfisher

    metalfisher New Member

    Messages:
    188
    State:
    Arkansas
    Hi Brian,

    The point is, if you can afford it. The small farmer has to plan his fields to make a living.

    The big farmer can plant a "dove" field with out impacting his livelyhood.
    Which brings me to repeat a previous point.

    If you have money, baiting a field takes on a different definition than if you don't have the money to do it big.

    My thinking is, if dumping 1 gallon bucket of bait is illegal, how in the world can spreading hundreds of bushels of wheat, milo & sunflowers NOT be illegal?

    It is just a sore point with me. If baiting is illegal for one person, then it whould be illegal for all.

    Here is a good example and this one really happened.

    In N.E. Arkansas there is a large cattle ranch that has a high voltage easement through it. There are several towers stretching wires across the ranch.

    The local "State Game Warden" got permission to plant a "dove" field on it. So, using farm equipment, he worked up the ground following along under the power lines and sowed it with wheat about 20 yards wide 1/4 mile long.

    Now even though he used "normal" farming practices, he planted the field specifically to attract and kill doves for him and his buddies. The way I see it, it is NOT normal farming practice to plant a crop just to mow it down or leave it to attract birds. It is baiting a field.

    Oh well, I guess I will have to grin and bear it because I can't do anything about it. So, I will try to make this my last post on this subject.
     
  10. derbycitycatman

    derbycitycatman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,296
    State:
    Kentucky
    Bait doesnt grow fields grow, just the way I see it. I think the big difference is protecting our wildife from disease transmission. It is much more likely when food is isolated(baiting) to small areas where many many birds or animals have to come into contact with each other. A field (normal farming practice) even if its cut spreads those animals out so disease is less likely. I believe it is still baiting your game but one is much more responsible than the other regarding the well being of our wildlife. If everyone spread out their bait instead of dumping truckload after truckload in the exact same spot I believe it would be different. Look at what happened to whitetail deer up in Wisconsin with CWD. It is reported that the deer spread the disease by contact over huge baitpiles, not browsing through cornfields. I think the browsing is what we need for animals to keep doing, not stopping in one bait pile and filling up where others have been and relieved themselves over and over again.
     
  11. derbycitycatman

    derbycitycatman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,296
    State:
    Kentucky
    As a guy said to me in a rep, Jamey I believe. Why couldnt he just plant small strips like the warden did. That shouldnt be too much of a strain on anyone, I would think.
     
  12. IL Hunter

    IL Hunter New Member

    Messages:
    1,574
    State:
    Normal, IL
    Your right that doesn't sit well with me either, but if the game warden coems to pay a visit he'll only see it how the law is written.
     
  13. 223reload

    223reload New Member

    Messages:
    10,798
    State:
    Oklahoma
    I guess this is a really grey area to me about baiting Ive already said my views on it but I just have to ask do any of you people ever hunt dove any other way? because here the number one stratigy is to sit at a water hole or pond as some would call it and wait for the birds to get thier evening drink and more or less ambush them try it you might like it as well as your method ps. you know they gotta drink as well as eat
     
  14. IL Hunter

    IL Hunter New Member

    Messages:
    1,574
    State:
    Normal, IL
    I've always hunted over a patch of sunflowers ( the actual plants,) but not everyone can do that...the water isn't a bad idea and it sounds legal.
     
  15. 223reload

    223reload New Member

    Messages:
    10,798
    State:
    Oklahoma
    That was a quicker response than expected but seriously its really a blast go scout a water hole about 5ish and watch for the big flight then youll know about what time to get out and set up
     
  16. metalfisher

    metalfisher New Member

    Messages:
    188
    State:
    Arkansas
    Best dove shoot I ever had was over a water hole in the middle of a bean field.

    Robert
     
  17. 223reload

    223reload New Member

    Messages:
    10,798
    State:
    Oklahoma
    we usually go yo one thats in the middle of a pasture if theres some trees so much the better
     
  18. derbycitycatman

    derbycitycatman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,296
    State:
    Kentucky
    Best dove hunt Ive been on was at a pond. They would sit in the trees for awhile and take off. Also done good just walking overgrown fields and kick them up. No one else like me doing it but I got more than anyone and eventually had a few start walking the fields with me.
     
  19. catfishslayer

    catfishslayer New Member

    Messages:
    27
    State:
    Illinois
    You would think there is no difference but just broadcasting bird seed out for hunting is considered baiting to DNR.The law is the law plant it let it grow cut some down alot more work but legal!