Bait ethics and morality?

Discussion in 'Deer Hunting' started by coble9, Oct 8, 2007.

  1. coble9

    coble9 New Member

    Messages:
    48
    State:
    Ohio
    Ok, here it goes. I was raised that the only fair way to hunt was bow and without baiting and scentlock. I have no problems with scent killer and doe in heat. I am trying to make up my mind on whats fair and what's cheating. I would appreciate your opinions on the subject of baiting.

    Is natural bait fair; acorns and apples?
    Is a salt lick fair?
    Is corn fair?
    Are scented man made deer lure gells fair?
    I am not going to go as far as a feeder, because if I was going to feed them I'd just get a cow.

    I got my first deer last year, so I am new to actually getting out and hunting deer. We have a one deer limit here, but they added an anterless tag during early archery, so I have two tags. I am looking for meat in the freezer more than trophy's, but if I get a big buck I want to have a clear conscience about it. The doe doesn't matter as much - just meat.
     
  2. derbycitycatman

    derbycitycatman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,299
    State:
    Kentucky
    Name:
    your first name
    Im wondering if you use a "real" bow or one of those bows with training wheels like I use? Fair and cheating is all up to the individual, imho. As far as being the "fairest" hunter Id say you need to make your own bow and arrows, make your own clothes, sleep in a shelter you made and no vehicles to get to your place either. :wink: I could come up with a few more things but I think you get the picture. I guess it just depends on how fair you want to make it. I hunt with a rifle, muzzleloader and a bow with training wheels. Eventually I want to make my own bow and hunt with that. When Im after a particular buck Ill take him with whatever I can. As far as whats cheating thats something you'll have to decide.
     

  3. tufffish

    tufffish New Member

    Messages:
    1,196
    State:
    Texas
    the use of bait (corn, alfalfa, ect.) does not guarantee killing a big buck. you still have to be in the woods, and conceal yourself and make a shot. the use of bait does help keep a deer in shooting range for a clean kill. the clean kill is the most important thing in the hunt. there is nothing more heartbreaking than loosing a good buck, or any deer for that matter. that is why i have no problem using bait to make a good shot. now i do love to go to colorado and new mexico and hunt where there are no stands and bait . but here in texas if you do not use bait the neighbor has it and you will have your deer in his pasture if you don't have bait out. if you do not believe in bait that is ok. if you use bait it is ok.. let's all have a great time in god's great outdoors.
     
  4. CatFishingFinatic

    CatFishingFinatic New Member

    Messages:
    198
    State:
    Iowa
    If you really think about it fair would be taking a deer only in his natural environment. I would say, Natural bait, acorns, apple trees that have been there for years, is fair. A corn field is fair. A pile of corn dumped to attract them is not fair, or legal in many states. Salt blocks are not fair and again not legal in many states to hunt over. Scented lures are not fair. But legal in many states. Guess what is fair all depends on what you are comfortable with and what you find fair. If you are going to shoot a deer and it eats at your conscience.... you must not have felt it was a fair hunt.
     
  5. fishnfool68

    fishnfool68 New Member

    Messages:
    379
    State:
    Near Tulsa Oklahoma
    Its us and our brains vs deer and its senses,speed,and instinct.We have set rules governed by our wildlife depts.As long as your following those rules ,and the 10 commandments of a shooter then your legal,and have fun!In my opinion you should hang an * right next to that deer on your wall if you paid someone to let you shoot a buck thats in a cage :embarassed:,but you are legal.We all have an little diffrent opinion on fair.So long as Right and Wrong are clear to us all,we can all have a safe and fruitful deer season:big_smile:
     
  6. catfishrus

    catfishrus New Member

    Messages:
    1,569
    State:
    north carolina
    you want to be fair give that a deer a bow and teach him how to shoot and give him a grocery store and then see who gets who. now that would be fair. im not about being fair myself. to me its the power to out smart and take advantage over with the best means possible within the legal law.
     
  7. kkyyoottee

    kkyyoottee New Member

    Messages:
    754
    State:
    Iowa
    Is it fair that a deer can smell you a 1/2 mile away? Is it fair a deer can hear you coughing at a 1/4 mile away? Is it fair a deer can see you blink your eyes at 100 yards? With that being said is it fair you as a human have a brain? Is it fair you will use all means possible to even the odds? Is it fair the Dnr sets rules that they think is fair? But it boils down to you what do you think is fair and within the limits of the law. Want to harvest a deer and wonder if you were fair? Then you have your anwser to being fair , but you have to anwser "was it fair" to yourself and only to yourself.
     
  8. Big B

    Big B New Member

    Messages:
    226
    State:
    North Texas
    If you are that concerned with being fair. Put in your time in the woods. I do it every year. If you don't take the time to scout and look for fresh signs. Then maybe you really aren't that much into hunting. This doesn't mean 1 week before opening day. Start a few days after the season closes to prepare for the up coming season. Last year I put maybe 150-200 hours in the woods between hunting and scouting. I know most people can't do that but work was slow. If you put in you time and pattern the deer you shouldn't need the baits. Stay down wind and scent shouldn't be a problem. The cover scents are just in case the wind shifts or swirls. I do from time to time throw out a little corn on a well used trail just to make sure they continue to use those trails. I have been known throw a little out where I want them to stop. During a hunt but I am a bowhunter. I sometimes get within feet of my quarry. Here is a bowhunting tip for you. If you have somewhere you want to set up for a hunt. Even if there are no trails within shooting distance. Go out in advance and make you a trail from 1 deer trail to another that goes right in front of you. If you make the trail a few feet wide they will use it. Especially if it's in thick brush. Deer are lazy, you can convince them to go where you want them to go. Without them knowing you are setting them up. Just make sure the wind is right before you sit the stand or blind so that you don't taint the area. Do what feels right to you, what ever your idea of fair chase is, within the law.
     
  9. jason454ci

    jason454ci Active Member

    Messages:
    1,307
    State:
    Zanesville, Ohi
    Not sure what part of Ohio you are from but around here there is no shortage of the dang brown varmints. Remember you are at the top of the food chain shoot them any way you can. In this part of the state if you get the three extra early season permits you can take up to six deer this year. It is bad enough the money we have to spend to control the states deer population for them so I sure wouldn't worry about if I ethically baited a deer into shooting distance.
     
  10. derbycitycatman

    derbycitycatman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,299
    State:
    Kentucky
    Name:
    your first name
    I think the more you hunt the better idea you have of what is fair. My second year hunting I baited and that was the last time as well, didnt seem right to me. Now its just much easier to go sit between a bunch of persimmon trees and they seem to be there just as much as they were to my measly corn pile and more and bigger bucks showed up. Is there any difference between the two besides the risk of disease spreading? Only thing I can think of is that I went out and found the trees and used that knowledge. Id have to agree when folks say when you put out bait there has to be deer there for it to be effective. BTW great topic.
     
  11. catfishrus

    catfishrus New Member

    Messages:
    1,569
    State:
    north carolina
    i understand you was raised that bow hunting was the only fair way to hunt deer because i was raised the only fair way to hunt deer was the best way you could with in law.....but what deer ever said it was fair either way really. bow hunting more fair than gun hunting and vic verse. i have a uncle that thinks the only way is to bow hunt. he now builds recurve bows for a living and has been the state champion bow shooter several times along with his wife. so being raiseed one way or the other dont make either way fair to me.jmo. is it fair the bow hunters get a longer season to hunt than the gun hunters...bow hunters will say yes and gun hunters will say no. to me alot of bow hunters force the local buck herd to go noctural in my area but thats just my opinon. may not be fair but nothing i can do about. also why would it not be fair for me to dump corn from your state around my stand when you hunt the field it came from? would it be fair if you was satnding beside of me with a bow and i had a gun when big boy came running out? well you would find out real fast what i thought was fair...lol. well if he was running you got just as good a chance as i do. so you better shoot.:smile2: i dont think you will find the answer on here you are looking for. it will be within yourself.:wink:
     
  12. coble9

    coble9 New Member

    Messages:
    48
    State:
    Ohio
    I agree that making my own bow would be the fairest way to hunt. I use a compound with 73lb draw weight and fiber optic sight pins, but that is because I don't have the confidence that at any distance I could make a clean kill with a recurve. I hate the thought of making an animal suffer, so I do cheat a little there, but not much. The state says baiting is legal, but it also says that taking 30 guys and pushing a woods during slug law is legal too. A lot of my problem is where I am. There isn't a lot of habitat or a very big population of deer. I wouldn't mind baiting for the antlerless tag or a small buck, just meat in the freezer. I just hate to think that if I bait and the big buck I saw on opening day comes back. Would I be ok with shooting it, or would I be ashamed. Yes it too is still just meat in the freezer, but I do hunt for the sport of it also. I know that is my own decision and only I can make it. Thank you all for your opinions.
     
  13. kkyyoottee

    kkyyoottee New Member

    Messages:
    754
    State:
    Iowa
    I started hunting with a 'pearson" bow it pulled a hole 45 pounds. My uncle made me 6 hunting arrows and 6 target arrows. I shot the darn thing till I had blisters then callious's on my 3 string fingers. I did this for 5 years before I ever got my deer you shoot a rambo bow because thats what everyone else does. Dont think a long bow can make a clean kill? Robbie one of my hunting partners has a hand made take down he made himself he is deadly with it. Broad heads you can shave with. I have a question for you ever hunted "arrowheads" ever seen a real indian arrow? We do what we do because thats what is the latest trend. Dont kid your self you can do anything you want you just have to want to. Good luck with any choice you make!!!
     
  14. jeffw51

    jeffw51 New Member

    Messages:
    288
    State:
    mo
    i agree with will on this one, if you feel uncomfortable with it dont do it.i use mineral blocks and while they are all torn up i have yet to see a big buck standing in any of them.we are overrun with deer so i am not worried about some guy in another state baiting to kill a deer.the only practice i disagree with totally are the use of dogs ive seen them run deer to death,i watched two dogs chase a doe into the river and drown her then swim back to shore and start chasing deer again,that is as unhumane as a practice can get.
     
  15. chambers bd

    chambers bd New Member

    Messages:
    1,134
    State:
    Sautee,Geo
    While serving as a paramedic instructor at Ft.Sam Houston Tx I went deer hunting at Camp Bullis. The DNR guys place you in a stand and pick you up later.
    This day I was only in the stand aout 45 minutes and heard a helicopter looked up and saw marine one fly over.
    The DNR Ranger came by said I had go Pres Bush (Sr) wants to go hunting.

    Imagine That:smile2:
     
  16. coble9

    coble9 New Member

    Messages:
    48
    State:
    Ohio
    I didn't mean that a recurve couldn't make a clean kill. I know a lot of people that use them to great success. I was questioning my own abilities. I usually don't spend much time practicing during the summer. I usually keep telling myself to get shooting and then a month before the season opens I finally get shooting until my arms get sore. With a traditional bow it is all instinctive shooting, whis is great, but requires a lot of practice and skill.
     
  17. David Knotts

    David Knotts New Member

    Messages:
    2,569
    State:
    Bossier City, La
    Instinctive shooting is not that hard for me. The way I learned was to point my finger at the target, with the hand that's on the bow,( be sure that you are useing field points when you do this) on longer yardage this is not a sure thing, but it teaches you to use the field poit like youwould your finger when you point at a target.
     
  18. Duckpoor

    Duckpoor New Member

    Messages:
    184
    State:
    Illinois
    Lures.. Scents and Bait aren't designed to put a deer in front of the gun or Bow, IMHO. Or at least not the way they are used in my Woods.

    They are Long term Attractants to encourage Deer or what ever the target critters to the "Area" or they are to mask errors I might have made.

    They can be useful off season to do an inventory in front of a Trail cam .
    I for one want nothing to bring attention to the Immediate area I am hunting, my shooting lanes or the stands I am hunting out of.
    Traffic is the ticket . Particularly during the Rutwhen none of that seems to make a heck of alot of difference. to the Big guys but sure can to the Gals.
    I want to know they are there. Know what to settle for and what to wait for.


    For Me on My farm, A food plot or bedding area, a drink tank of a loafing area will produce Many more ops than anything I drag off of a hanger or squirt out of a Bottle the day before the opener.
    Depending on a "Product" to whistle up a target is just a feel good and Might do more harm than good. Scent lock is a short cut to another management issue and I am sure helps lots of us get lots closer.. but is no Sliver Bullet.

    Have absolutely no issues with how folks do it where ever they are and what ever works for them.

    "Wait till they clear the feeder" .... shouldn't be part of the Morning Drill Speach... LOL
    Good luck and Get after them
     
  19. Paraguayguy

    Paraguayguy New Member

    Messages:
    1,650
    State:
    Virginia
    It is a southern thing. Over here in eastern VA we have more swamp than dry ground. Without dogs we couldn't put a dent in the population that needs serious thinning. I mean does the world not like running poor little bunny rabbits with beagles or racoons with hounds, or pumas, or bears. In their case the mean old bear or puma could kill a dog and do. I am not supposed to chase those quail and pheasants around with my pointers.

    Heck we started tossing wolves bones when we were living in caves and painting ourselves blue. That wolf became our friend and servant. Give me a dog hunt over any other kind. I have no problem ethically using a dog to hunt anything on the planet.:big_smile:
     
  20. bootshowl

    bootshowl New Member

    Messages:
    2,288
    State:
    Indiana, J
    I think the dog hunt is a southern thing seems like. I worked for a vet before going in the service as a lad, and seen what a coon can do to a good coon hound, LOL. Out west they use them for cougars, or used to. I'm guessing a good size buck, or doe could do some stomping too.
    I hunt as it makes me happy just like most things outdoors. I don't really get all that upset if I don't do well, unless it's something stupid I did. If I was doing something that distracted from that, even if it was legal, I wouldn't make the trade off. Happiness & peace of mind is a quest too.