ammunition question

Discussion in 'Guns - Blackpowder' started by river scum, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. river scum

    river scum New Member

    Messages:
    3,474
    State:
    hooterville indiana
    are all the military 7.62/39s steel core? i assume they are but if not is there a way to tell the difference? also while on the subject can you still get the crates and how much are they these days? i haven't bought a crate since the late 80s or early 90s. it seams like it was 90$ for 1440 rounds(cant remember for sure though)?

    thinking back man those were some fun summer days! lol
     
  2. Philiagorillia

    Philiagorillia New Member

    Messages:
    296
    State:
    Missouri
    No, most of them are all lead core anymore sence the steel core ban in 94, every now and then you can find some older ammo that is steel core, usually you'll find old norinco chinese steel core ammo, East German M43 Steel Core, bulgarian steel core or soviet [FONT=verdana,arial]armor piercing incendiary which are rare. I havent seen steel core ammo around for a while, just have to keep searching the gun shows...[/FONT]
     

  3. 223reload

    223reload New Member

    Messages:
    10,798
    State:
    Oklahoma
    Tim,My current 'cheaper than dirt' sales flyer lists Wolf classic military ammo,7.62x39 at 225.39/1000 rnds in either 124grFMJ or HP.
     
  4. river scum

    river scum New Member

    Messages:
    3,474
    State:
    hooterville indiana
    thanks, richard and phil.

    anyone know how to tell the difference and if the steels cost more? most of mine are stampped 67&72.
     
  5. peewee williams

    peewee williams New Member

    Messages:
    3,111
    State:
    Pembroke,Georgia
    I have had plenty of both.Most of mine said so on the box.From everything that I have been able to find out,the lead core is better on your barrel in the long run.While both are steel jacketed they are gilded to give in to the rifling.Now the much harder steel core will not compress if it needs to to fit your bore and give like the lead core will.Makes sense to me.Both will stick to a magnet.The only surefire way that I know to tell the difference is to drill a small hole in the tip and see if you get lead after about 1/8-3/16 inch depth.If you see lead stop drilling.If not by 3/16 inch you got steel.Now a few have had very hard steel that destroyed a regular carbon steel drill.Armor piercing perhaps?You will then know what that batch is.I have done this quite a few times for me and others.

    I personally would shoot as much of the lead core as I could and save the steel core for hard times or worn or poorer quality barrels.There seems to be a bit of difference in the bore diameters in some of the SKS rifles that I have slugged and what I have heard and read about.As a rule it seems to me that the tighter bores were more accurate.These tight accurate bores would seem to me to be more susceptible to the steel core accelerated wear.

    I have also found differences in some of the bullet diameters!I think that these rifles are made to handle the good with most of the garbage ammo under averse battle conditions.Now I am mostly familiar with the Chinese SKS rifles,but I have seen them do well to good on some ammo that constantly jammed and malfunctioned in European guns.I shot up several hundred rounds of loose dirty shooting ammo once given to me because I was told that it would hardly function in several European guns.

    I also believe that the the folks who like to see the barrel glow in the dark from heat are far more damaging to their barrels than the worst ammo.The hotter all metal gets the softer it gets and the more it gives.I do believe in saving a barrel in case your life may depend on it.I fire ten rounds and stand the rifle to cool with a open bore so that air can circulate through the barrel in semi autos including .22rf.Every 3 rounds with such as a 300 Weatherby or a hot varmint gun.My guns and barrels last through proper care.I hope this helps.

    I love you Brothers and Sisters.peewee
     
  6. okiecop

    okiecop New Member

    Messages:
    265
    State:
    Grove, OK
    The best place I have found for info in 7.62x39 ammo is at ak47.net. There is a sticky there that not only tells you how to identify steel core ammo but also how to read the headstamps to know when and where the ammo was made.
     
  7. peewee williams

    peewee williams New Member

    Messages:
    3,111
    State:
    Pembroke,Georgia
    The ammo that I bought is all newer and stamped 92 which is not on the stickies at the above sight.Steel,lead and the two different hunting Chinese Norenco ammo all have this 92 head stamp.Now each box clearly states what it is and that it is non corrosive.I have found all of this to be clean shooting and much more accurate in my opinion in the Norinco Chinese type 56 SKSs.

    I was told of this accuracy by a dealer at a gun show on a Saturday,bought a box of each,went home and tried them with a friends new bought SKS.I was well satisfied.I went back the next day and bought 2 new Norinco SKSs,1200 rounds of lead,1200 of steel,and 200 rounds of soft nose hunting and 100 rounds of a hollow point hunting ammo for under $500.00 loaded in my truck taxes and all.This price included the two boxes of shells that I bought the day before.That made two guns and 2740 rounds for under $500.00.I could not believe it and I could not pass it up.Every dealer that had them there were selling them like this.Them was the good old days when it was at its cheapest.I have never heard of anyone getting a better deal on them.I also got two 50 round clips and a folding stock that day for nearly nothing.Perhaps this was just before the axe fell and they had to get rid of or modify them.

    I bought for the price as I am a revolver and bolt action man.Also I was making a good living then and could afford it.Yea,sure!(I sold a week of my vacation back to the company and worked it to pay for all of this.)I can't afford a box of 410 or 16 gauge shells now.Times have changed.I surly miss all the guns I had,but keeping the rust away is a full time job in South Georgia.That I don't miss.

    The SKS is a fine 100 yard all weather Deer gun in my opinion as our Deer are small.You can stick that Bayonet in the ground in a rainstorm and pick it up at anytime and shoot it.You can wash the mud off and out in the river,shake it out and shoot it.I know.I did it to prove it can be done to the unbelievers.My wood stocks were sealed inside and out with "Turtle Wax".Matter of fact all of my varnish stocks were and my oiled were with 100% Tung oil along with my wood Bayonet,knife and Tomahawk handles.My leather Military slings,Bayonet frogs,paratrooper boots and logging boots got the Thompson Waterseal treatments.I don't like things that have not been weather proofed.I am or I was.

    This has gotten to be a Nitroglycerin night and I think that I have eaten a hole out under my tongue with them tonight.They can't do anything for me at the emergency room so it is time to lay back in my chair with the Oxygen where I have have slept for over 10 years now.I haven't been able to lay down for all this time and live setting up 24 ours a day.

    I love you Brothers and Sisters.peewee
     
  8. gardengrz

    gardengrz New Member

    Messages:
    899
    State:
    wakeman,ohio
    peewee, i love the way you go into detail with your posts. you are definatly in the know. take care of the health issues i know im in the same boat.quess we can say done there been that. keep on keepin on.:big_smile: :cool2:
     
  9. Philiagorillia

    Philiagorillia New Member

    Messages:
    296
    State:
    Missouri
    The stamps on your ammo is most likely the year the ammo was made in. There really isnt any way to tell if its steel core ammo unless you take one and yank the bullet out and compaire it to something like wolf ammo which is always lead core. You'll see that the steel core is a full inch long and is a boattail style bullet where the lead core isnt. And you certainly cant use a magnent to tell because of the copper jacket.
     
  10. peewee williams

    peewee williams New Member

    Messages:
    3,111
    State:
    Pembroke,Georgia
    A magnet will stick to lead or steel core if it is steel jacketed and Copper gilded.It will not stick to a lead bullet with a Copper Jacket.This is why I filed the tips just enough to start a drill and drilled them dead center.You learn what they are and you can still fire the bullets.They still cycle great.The very first time I checked them side by side with the hollow points I had that cycled great.

    I have no Wolf ammo nor any experience with it that I ever remember.How does it do?I have the old Hanson in various military calibers as I kept one box or partial box of every kind I had for just such as this.Reference is far better than my memory and the best reference for me is to have one in my hand,my very good concentrated spot light shining down and my old Sears 5 inch optically ground glass magnifier.I also have a set of jewelers loups,Gowland type magnifier,a hand held tubular microscope and various others that I have collected to use over time.

    As for the present Wolf ammo,it is getting some very detrimental reviews in some of the semi auto threads.You see some horror stories in some of the M1 Carbine threads and dissatisfaction in some others.The complaints are dirty powder and inconsistency causing jams.I have only used store bought Olin USA FMJ and Remington soft points for Beaver when they were damaging something in my Iver Johnson 30 cal.Carbine with great results.I reloaded the brass with 110 grain FMJ,and RN with great results.

    I always could pull the bullets in civilian ammo a lot easier than most military.The same goes for primers.The military is not made to come out or leak.I once left some Norinco 7.62 x 39 lead & steel core under over a foot of water in a 7 1/2 gal plastic bucket for a week and it all fired.I did it again for two weeks and it all fired.I quit.It shows what the Chinese can do if they want to make something to kill you with!

    I have and am really enjoying this thread though as I said,I am a bolt action and Revolver man.Now being I wanted a Lever action 30-30 and .22 ever since I can remember,I had to have them when I grew up and could afford one.I do love the old guns that a magnet will stick to the receivers!I guess I am also a "forged steel and machined receiver" old goat also.For you young folk,a "forged steel & machined receiver" is a "antique" gun part!

    I love you Brothers and Sisters.peewee
     
  11. chambers bd

    chambers bd New Member

    Messages:
    1,134
    State:
    Sautee,Geo
    [​IMG]


    The WWII generation spoke little and actted alot, They are the greatest generation.
     
  12. peewee williams

    peewee williams New Member

    Messages:
    3,111
    State:
    Pembroke,Georgia
    Man have you got that last sentence right!

    I once questioned the reasoning in the Military phasing out the M1.Immediately after showering and dressing that evening I was issued one along with about ten loaded clips,bandoleer and sealed spam can with about 190 rounds of loaded clips.I was ordered to wear this gear until told different.I was told that I would not remove or put down this gear for any reason until told that I could.I was not to question this.Yes sir.I ate,slept,trained and was allowed to shower with this gear for 39 hours total.I was allowed to dry and clean this gear after the shower.The next morning I was asked if I believed the United States military in it's infinite wisdom knew what it was doing when it phased out the M1.I said YES!I was asked if I questioned anymore decisions of the United states military.I said "NO".I was relieved of my gear.God help the poor grunts who lived with this gear plus full field gear for weeks under battlefield conditions.

    That is the days that I found out that a old Marine can teach you a lot with a few words and little actual instruction.I had no trouble figuring out the errors of my ways.

    I for one have no doubts why the SKS and M-16 were developed and issued as a battle rifle.I also know why the 30 cal. Carbine was treasured.

    I am eternally grateful that I did not make this statement about the BAR instead of the M1!

    I love you Brothers and Sisters.peewee
     
  13. chambers bd

    chambers bd New Member

    Messages:
    1,134
    State:
    Sautee,Geo
    Thank You, Pee Wee
    You always seem to have the right remarks. I still like the M1 Garand.
    I have waited a while to order one. It was a Icon for a hard time in our country. A 3006 is much heavier, I dont think a 5.56 mm can match a 7.62(3006) for power.
     
  14. peewee williams

    peewee williams New Member

    Messages:
    3,111
    State:
    Pembroke,Georgia


    I have never cared for the .223 round nor the M-16.It was new and known for it's "independability" and "inaccuracy"in my day.Apparently neither did the military with all of the changes,mods,bullet weights and twist that has evolved.They have never seemed to be satisfied with it.I have heard the opposition say that they were well satisfied with and happy with our choice!Ain't that a hell of a note!As with all,some brag on it.I often wonder just how much experience with other arms some of these expert opinions are based on.When you know nothing of what others have,it is easy to be happy or unhappy with the only thing that you have ever known.In the early 60's it was a fine "Star wars"looking oddity that functioned just fine for the desk jockeys and REMS on the range where they had the time and facilities to keep them clean.I was told they got a lot of brothers boxed up and sent home to their folks to bury in the field.A shame but many of the ones who could,chose to covered their butt with the enemies weapons when ever they could.

    I personally know little to nothing about the M-16.I have listened to and questioned those that had experience with them in the early life of it.These were folk who had proved that I could trust my life to and I trust their opinions.Perhaps Bush has since kissed it and it became a princess for all I know.

    I envy you.

    As you can tell,I loved the M1 at the time and still do.I wish I had a dozen.I do not wish to carry one though I understand the reason for the weight.I once got to shoot one that had been sporterised by the Armory for a certain General to hunt with.It was very pretty and also very much lighter with a shortened barrel and stock.Muzzle blast and recoil were much worse than the originals.The regular old M1 would eat your chitterlings when it got dirty.The only thing I did not like was the clip that you could not "freshen up"

    Some of the Marines carried standard issue 03 Springfields and a few 1917 Enfields in the Pacific because of a shortage of M1s at the start of the war.I toted a 03 through navy boot.I have a 1917 Enfield made up of all unissured parts that is a fine work horse hunting rifle.Ain't valuable at all,but just as good as a new one.All serial numbers were ground off and scribed in.It is a awesome rifle and was made with strength in mind.It looks as if it were made to club a Elephant to death rather than to shoot a man.Now I would hate to live with it for 39 hours!Being the trench warfare of WW1 was not very mobile,few were carried to extreme distances.It like M1s feels clumsy to start with but quickly grows on you to seem to be a part of you.

    Tote that M1 much with a military sling and you will often forget that it is there!ENJOY!Please give us a review when you get it checked out.Don't wait too long.I always disliked shooting in hot weather as I sweat a lot and the salt from my sweat was rough on my guns.I don't handle guns with kid gloves but I certainly use cotton ones and insist on all who handled mine to do so.It is amazing at the "experts" who ask "WHY"?

    I love you Brothers and Sisters.peewee