Almost went to jail tonight !

Discussion in 'MISSOURI RIVERS TALK' started by Manny, Jul 11, 2009.

  1. Manny

    Manny New Member

    Messages:
    248
    State:
    Arnold, Mo
    Went down to Flam City tonight to try some bank fishing about 7:00 p.m.

    About 10:15 p.m. I see a flash light walking towards me, It's a cop.

    He tells me that the park closes after dark and that I have to leave. I told him in a very polite way, that the last time that I was ran off I called MDC the very next day. And they said I have every rite to be there as long as Im fishing and not drinking or loitering. And that MDC owns Flam City but is patrolled by the Arnold police dept.

    The cop went on to say that if I dont leave he will issue me a citation. I then asked him if he gives me a citation can I stay and fish ( again very politly knowing the citation would be thrown out after he talked to MDC)

    He said " If I write you a citation Im going to take you in and all your poles and equipment tonight" I can tell now that the cop is getting pissed.

    I looked down at my poles and tackle and I had two of my best rod and reels with me weighted it out in my head and said OK I will leave. But !

    At that very time there was a small boat trolling buy I guess to see whats going on. I would say maybe 15 yards from bank. I told the cop that if I leave he should also. He said dont worry about anyone else. I can have all the truck and trailors towed or I can issue them a citation in the mail from their plates.

    I told him that if I leave that he better be writing down all the plates in the lot. He said " I might do that " I told him That I wish you would and that I wanted to see how popular he would be after that and smiled.

    He told me than in a loud tone " Do I tell you how to do your job" I said no. And you dont have to yell Im rite here. I then asked for his name and badge number and Ill be on my way. He then asked for my license, and I helped him spell my last name. He gave me my license back along with his card, and asked what I was going to do with that information. I told him he will be hearing from me tommorow.

    While I was loading my equipment I seen him over at the lot acting like he was taking plate numbers down.

    Even though I didnt get a bite and they probably werent going to any time soon, I wanted to fish. It seem as though Flam city is only open to boats at night.

    Im going to go down and take pictures of all the signs during the day tommorow. Not one sign says Park closes after dark. But their is a sign sayin that the boat ramp closes one half hour after sunset.

    So it sounds that the cop has got it backwards and that he should be giving out citations for anyone using the ramp after dark and leave the bank fisherman alone.

    Now I think it great that the cops patroll the lot. Their are many times Im out in my boat after dark and know my truck and trailor are safe.

    This is just a bad cop

    Tommorow I will be going to the police dept to make a complaint on the officer. Along with MDC to tell them about the harrasment of bank fisherman at Flam City. Maybe I can get them to talk to the police dept and tell them the rules of a MDC PARK.
     
  2. jim700

    jim700 New Member

    Messages:
    88
    State:
    Missouri
    I have had my fair share of rude cop run in's but normally there being roughed up be the local roughnecks so there always pissy but anyway he probably didn't mean to much by it, just having a bad night. Maybe he wanted to go fishing but had to work lol. Some people take the badge a little to far though.
     

  3. wabah58

    wabah58 New Member

    Messages:
    631
    State:
    Missouri
    Keep us informed, I'll be interested in the outcome. I can tell you Manny, that the Arnold jail has good food :big_smile:
    Last time I checked in there for a short stay I got Dennys for breakfast. I think it was the grand slam.
     
  4. drpepper

    drpepper New Member

    Messages:
    6,133
    State:
    Indiana
    The high school catfishing club always pick on him in the lunch room and now he's got a badge and a gun :crazy:
     
  5. kat in the hat

    kat in the hat New Member

    Messages:
    4,875
    State:
    Missouri
    Yeah...most CAs are open all night as long as it is being used for intended purposes like fishing or camping.
     
  6. 1 4 Fishing

    1 4 Fishing New Member

    Messages:
    76
    State:
    Oklahoma
    That suck man. I was run off one time like that but it was by a game warden
     
  7. TheMadCatter

    TheMadCatter New Member

    Messages:
    539
    State:
    missouri
    sorry to hear it, you didnt miss much i was on the meramec from sunset till sun up and ended with a total of 2 gar and 4 turtles . one of which had to be 30+pounds, it was a huge snapper. the other ones were soft shells.
     
  8. Manny

    Manny New Member

    Messages:
    248
    State:
    Arnold, Mo
    I went down to the Arnold police department this morning and talked to another cop. I left him the website from the MDC stating that the area is open to fishing all night. I also informed him that the sign they are referring to saying that the park is closed is not what they say it says. The sign says the boat ramp closes after sunset not the park. He then said he would get back with me.

    A couple hours later I got a call from a luetenant ( I probably misspelled big time ) any way he told me that he read the info I gave him on the MDC website and that I was rite. The park is open all night to fishing and that he sent a patrolling cop down there to read the signs, and I was also rite that the sign say the boat ramp not the park itself closes after dark. And that the MDC website states that Flamm city is open to fishing after dark.

    He went on to say if I had been arrested or a citation wrote up on me that they would have to throw it out after reading on the MDC.

    He said he does not have any problem with people fishing after dark there but some cops are different. It would be at the cops disgreation.
    I told him that I would not give up the cops name and dont want to cause to big of seen and wanted to just infrom them of the rules.

    I can definetly see someone getting ran off if drinking beer and cans all over the place even though he or she is fishing and disrespecting the property.

    But I told him I was there by myself, a cooler with 2 Dr. Peppers in it and bait. There was no reason for me to be ran off.

    I also said there is a difference between disgreation and common sense.

    Again I contacted MDC and I am well within my rites to be fishing and not causing a seen of any sort.

    So the out come we came to, was he was going to talk to the officers as a whole ( Maybe he actually will ?) and inform the of the rules.

    It is still at the disgreation of the officer and situation.
    He is not going to tell me that I cant fish at night.

    If a citation is issued it would be thrown out.

    Hmmmm ?????????????????? O well
     
  9. TheMadCatter

    TheMadCatter New Member

    Messages:
    539
    State:
    missouri
    well thats something i never heard, a cop admitting they were wrong.....lmao
    i have a few friends who are police, and they tell me all the time that there are just a few guys out there that make them all look like pricks. im sure you dont need to tell them who it was out there, they more than likely already know.
     
  10. Scaley Cat

    Scaley Cat Member

    Messages:
    214
    State:
    Missouri
    Obviously he is not a BOC brother or just jealous he couldnt fish. I would have told him to HUG'EM!
     
  11. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    What I would do is go on that website and print the page.
    Write the Lt's name on it that told you that you were correct and the date he told you so. Keep it in your wallet.

    Tell the next officer that jacks you up to call the Lt. if he doubts your claim.

    If he refuses, he would have to cite me and when I got before the judge I would present that page to him.
    Typically judges don't like their courts being tangled up with citations that have to be thrown out. Often times it leads to a discussion in private and sometimes in open court with the officer. I've seen some that weren't very nice discussions directed towards the officer.
     
  12. drpepper

    drpepper New Member

    Messages:
    6,133
    State:
    Indiana
    PARK RULES & REGULATIONS
    Park Hours: Parks open one-half hour after sunrise and close one-half hour after sunset.

    1. All reserved grounds or areas must be occupied by 11:00 A.M. Or risk forfeiture to other groups on a first come basis.
    2. Fires are allowed only in suitable BBQ pit areas or by special permission from the Parks Director. Deposit all litter in the proper receptacles.
    3. No pets allowed in skate park or tennis courts. Pets must remain on a leash at all times.
    4. No feeding of the Ducks or Geese at any City Park
    5. Swimming, wading, boating, and skating is prohibited on all waterways in all parks.
    6. Motorized vehicles are only allowed on paved roads and parking areas.
    7. Tennis courts are for tennis only. No roller hockey, skateboarding, basketball, volleyball, etc. is allowed.
    8. Skate Park is for in line skaters and skateboards only. No bikes, scooters, or pets allowed.
    9. No live entertainment without the approval of the parks director.
    10. Inflatables are allowed with a certificate of insurance from the renter.
    11. Solicitation is not allowed in any park.
    12. Horse/petting zoos are not allowed.
    13. Golfing & golf practice are not allowed.
    14. All trash must be properly disposed of.
    15. All rules and signs, such as speed limits, shall be obeyed by user.

    http://www.arnoldmo.org/index.asp?Type=B_LIST&SEC={56D71498-382B-4957-90AD-1C0EEC5AE01F}
     
  13. Manny

    Manny New Member

    Messages:
    248
    State:
    Arnold, Mo

    This is correct for the Arnold Parks, But the MDC owns the park that Arnold maintaines. Again the MDC rules state the fishing is accepted along with boating. The maze of words are a tangled mess.

    Again MDC if called like I have, say it is open all night to people fishing or on the water. Kind of a catch 22 ???
     
  14. Andy52

    Andy52 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    3,426
    State:
    Winfield, Mo.
    Well done Manny, Well done....you kept your cool and did the right thing. More people should do as you have done. Know the rules, know the facts and keep a cool head.. it's a winning combo.
     
  15. catfish kenny

    catfish kenny New Member

    Messages:
    6,064
    State:
    Iowa
    we are having river front issues here lott of good fishen is along the banks of a park and ther runnin em off at 1100 ..it could go either way though cause litter and maitenece become a problem for the are they will figure it out...
     
  16. DANZIG

    DANZIG New Member

    Messages:
    6,672
    State:
    West Virginia
    Reckon I would see if I could get a letter from who ever runs the MDC(their letterhead and such) and keep it handy.
     
  17. Andy52

    Andy52 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    3,426
    State:
    Winfield, Mo.
    Sadly your right....The wife and went out this morning a 5AM. When we got to the ramp there was a father and his young son fishing from the bank. We talked for awhile before hitting the water. The youngster was excited about be there and told use they had been there for 6 hrs. Great we said and are you having fun, yes he said. We returned to the ramp later around 11:00 .....do you know what we found. TRASH! soda cans, beer cans etc. etc. We picked up the trash and asked our selves what is this father teaching that young man. Man, it's just not right!
     
  18. Manny

    Manny New Member

    Messages:
    248
    State:
    Arnold, Mo
    I believe these issues are everywhere some people love to litter and have no respect for the property they are fishing on or the river.

    I bank fish probably 50% of the time. Almost every time I fish I pick up all the trash within 20 yards on either side of me and walk it to the trash. Which is only about a 1 minute walk away.

    The last thing I need is to be ran off by a cop thinking I am drinking like a sailor and littering. Plus I dont want to sit in a mess of trash.

    Im not gonna give them a reaqson to run me off.:wink:
     
  19. pd701

    pd701 New Member

    Messages:
    15
    State:
    Missouri
    Well, interesting post, interesting answers.
    In short Manny is both right and wrong. The Lieutenant (that's how ya spell it) is just clearing Manny out of his hair by telling him what he wants to hear since the was no Summons issued its a matter of what's easiest to deal with.
    If Manny had been summoned into Missouri State Court it would be dismissed Manny would smile and feel like he won. Go Manny! He wins and the copper looks like an idiot.
    Now the copper knows this too so he's never going to issue Manny a summons to Missouri State Court he's going to cite him via Arnold Municipal Code which appears to basicly close the park after a certain time. Manny comes to court now sure he's going to win his case only to lose because while its a MDC Park it rests inside a municipal venue so the Conservation Agents, Arnold Police and County Law Enforcement Agency share juristiction. In short your safe from Conservation Agents and Sheriffs Deputies who cannot enforce Arnold Municipal Code only State Law or rules. The Arnold City Officer can enforce the city code which can be more restrictive than State Law. Think of it this way Interstate 55 runs through Arnold the MSHP and Sheriffs Department both can enforce state traffic law on that bit of road along with the Arnold Police. Now let's say Arnold has a city law forbiding loud exhaust. Troopers and Deputies can't enforce that law. Arnold City Officers can but they can't summons you to state court for that.
    Sounds to me like Manny met a fairly even tempered officer. Who didn't let Manny's little attitude talk him into a summons. Manny not giving up the coppers name did save the officer an ass chewing about why he didn't just write the obnoxious guy a tickett.
    I do it all the time. My general rule is if you want to argue with me about why I can't write a tickett I will most likely let a judge explain why I can, with a fine.
     
  20. Kutter

    Kutter New Member

    Messages:
    5,379
    State:
    Arnold, MO
    Manny, not too long before dark. I had no intention of going fishing, but you just changed my mind. 3 guesses where I am going.