6500 c3 instant anti reverse not working

Discussion in 'Reel Repair and Upgrades' started by ko3579, May 29, 2009.

  1. ko3579

    ko3579 New Member

    Messages:
    218
    State:
    Frankfort, Ky
    Hey guys first post but been browsing around for about a yr now, great site with alot of info, anyway I got a 6500 in from ebay today and the instant anti reverse doesnt work, it just reels forward and backwards, is there away to fix this, It looks like it suppose to be a 1 way bearing in the case but looks like a got a two way. any suggestion or should I send it back, by the way it is one of the new models. thanks in advance.
     
  2. OkieHenry

    OkieHenry New Member

    Messages:
    79
    State:
    Hulbert, Oklahoma
    You can order another bearing from abu, if you got the reel cheap enough, if not i would send it back.
     

  3. Ken D

    Ken D New Member

    Messages:
    160
    State:
    B.C. (CAD)
    Hi, Jason....the usual failure reasons for the IAR would be over lube, and faulty sleeve between brg and driveshaft. If the sleeve has a dark gray band in the middle, and slight indents form the needles of the brg, change out the sleeve. It's about 4.00 something, way less from Benny on the eeb,eh? (ebay).

    Benny operates as gilbertspaylakeinky. He's fair, and fast.
    You may wiish to check sleeve orientation..the older sleeves had a square end and a round end. Today's sleeves have both ends square, to avoid the common mistake of placing the square end up, instead of down.

    I'd degrease the bearing, and check that all the needles are still in place.

    Regretfully, Abu does not sell the one way bearing seperate. It's always part of the side plate. Several progressive Abu dealers, and a company called Motion Industries can get them for you, but then you need to unpress, and repress it back into the side plate. They run about 10 US dollars.

    Some of the non-core Abus out there, like Silver Max, and other styles show a one way bearing seperate, but so far, I've not been able to obtain same from Abu. I order as per the part number, and it always comes back with no IAR on the sheet. I take core to mean the bread and butter reels..
    round ones: 45/46/55/56/65/6600's.

    Another option is to pick up a set of sideplates off auction, and swap those out.

    When you say 6500, do you mean a recent version, or is it an older one?
    Is there a possibility it's a version with no IAR, but a mechanical ratchet type? Sometimes, said ratchet comes loose, and you get reverse.

    Hope this helps, KD.
     
  4. Snagged2

    Snagged2 New Member

    Messages:
    6,252
    State:
    Verde Valley AZ
    Just as you say Ken,
    Good info,,
    I've made myself a little "Press" to remove and replace the IAR bearings,, haven't killed one yet..
    And, If it's not an IAR-Clutch bearing unit, It could be as simple as putting the thing back together properly..
     
  5. ko3579

    ko3579 New Member

    Messages:
    218
    State:
    Frankfort, Ky
    It was the newest version of the reel, I took it apart and it is the iar bearing, it did have alot of greese in there, but once I got the greese cleaned out it was a faulty bearing, I compared it with another one of my reels, so I am returning it for a replacement. thanks guys for the help, now another question for you guys, I have a older 6000 C, the black one from the 70s its a good reel but when you push the release button it wont disengage the reel unless the handle is straight up or sideways, any way else and I have to rotate the handle to disengage the reel. Not a big deal just annoying and for that reason its sits on my desk unused. thanks guys
     
  6. Ken D

    Ken D New Member

    Messages:
    160
    State:
    B.C. (CAD)
    Hio, J....sounds like a broken spring in this piece.... when you have a chance, could you fip the reel over, and post the first four digits you'll see on the frame reel foot.

    Something like this, but needed are the first four digits.
    Best, KD

    [​IMG]
     
  7. ko3579

    ko3579 New Member

    Messages:
    218
    State:
    Frankfort, Ky
    here you go, the reel foot number is 060800, also if you know any good upgrades you can do to this reel let me know, i have already upgraded the drag washers to the carbontex, Thanks
     
  8. Ken D

    Ken D New Member

    Messages:
    160
    State:
    B.C. (CAD)
    Hi, Jason, I don't have that exact schematic, but I wanted to see the number to learn what position holder you have inside.

    I'll be in touch with Purefishing to get the drawing, but in the meantime, based on the high number, I suspect you bought the reel in the 2000's, not prior in 1999.

    The position holder will be the type with an internal spring.* This narrows the causes of spotty engagement from cast to reel. The position holder is a 3.00 part. The clutch arm that the casting button operates is about the same.

    The position holder is the black gizzie with the 2 stainless steel fingers, pressing down on the pinion yoke. the clutch arm is that crooked bit with the the triangle on the end that hooks around the driveshaft.

    I'd dissassemble the reel and do a good cleanup and re-lube of the internals. Then do a recheck. Also check for sideplate dents, bends, distortions. A compromised sideplate can exert weird pressures on the internals. causing all sorts of issues.

    I'm going to send you to Stripers On Line..
    an Eastern board, with a really great pictorial/tutorial on a typical round Abu.

    You will hopefully not let your reel get to the state the poster is using,
    but corrosion aside, the pics and dialogue are pretty good.

    If your reel is the later 6-weight braking system, the theory is the same.
    except for the 4-slotted pinion, all the internals are equal.
    The 6-wt system is friction fit, just pluck it off the spool.

    http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/showthread.php?t=655594&highlight=Nimo

    If the reel still fails after the tidy-up, then I'd take careful note of the little bent up part on the clutch arm, and do a careful re-bend, to better set up the catch of the driveshaft by the hook.

    If the reel still fails, I'd buy a position holder. Trying to rebend the fingers
    is hit and miss as regards pressure for each pronger.

    You can usually save the clutch arm by a careful rebend. You want to bend just the end, leaving the rest of the arm flat.

    Hope this helps. And regulars here on the board: I'm not trying to do end runs around the fine repair crew here.. by going to the SOL board, only trying to help out.

    Thanks.......Ken.

    * Should the holder have an external spring, its place in the reel will be very evident after you get the side plate off.
     
  9. Ken D

    Ken D New Member

    Messages:
    160
    State:
    B.C. (CAD)
    Hi, J....upgrades would include: a careful lube/oil/reassembly, using special stuffs, ceramic spool bearings, ball bearing idler gear, dual ball bearing worm, ceramic line pawl.
     
  10. ko3579

    ko3579 New Member

    Messages:
    218
    State:
    Frankfort, Ky
    Hi ken, this is a old 6000C the abu savangsta model with the flat sides and the dual cast control, Its been since last year that I had it apart so I have to open her up tomorrow when I get home, and see if I can see what your talking about and maybe load up some pics, I got a schematic for it last year from mikes. The foot number I may have upside down, I will check that too. Thanks for the help
     
  11. Ken D

    Ken D New Member

    Messages:
    160
    State:
    B.C. (CAD)
    Acknowledged, Jason... I have a mental pic of the model now. Then you will have three springs inside the works on the brake plate.

    There are two trip levers inside, and it sounds like one or more of the 3 springs are either broken, or have lost their tension.

    The old flat plate jobbies were also more suseptible (sp) to malfuncitons of cast control.

    I'd open the sideplete, check the springs, then really carefully look for sideplate distortions. After a good clean and lube.

    The describe of instant anti-reverse threw me... your reel has a mechanical ratchet, not IAR, and it's not a C3, it's a C.

    I remember seeing an image of this brake plate on the web, I'll see if I can find it.

    I found it: this is a later model, but the brake plate ought to be very close to yours.
    Note the placement of the springs. Thanks to Surfslinger on the SOL board for the image.

    NOTE: if the hidden spring under the casting lever by the yoke is hooped, believe me: it's a lot easier to replace the entire brake plate than to replace that spring.
    Mike Marcotte of Mike's Reel knows his stuff, and if he takes more time than a 20.00 brake plate come to...well. Nuff said.

    Test by grasping the pinion, and gently uplifting, and downlifting. There should be noticible tension provded by the hidden spring.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. ko3579

    ko3579 New Member

    Messages:
    218
    State:
    Frankfort, Ky
    Hi ken, I had you all confused, I was talking about a totally different reel in the beginning, It was a brand new one like you would go out and purchase right now with the anti reverse bearing, We figured out that problem, then I asked you a question about a different reel the 6000c, Im sorry I didnt mean to confuse ya, I will take apart this 6000c today and see if I can see any of the issues you mentioned. again sorry for the confusion, Thanks again
     
  13. Ken D

    Ken D New Member

    Messages:
    160
    State:
    B.C. (CAD)
    Hi, Jason...I confused myself....easy for me to do. I am referred to by my inner circle as their 40-watt friend...a dim bulb. LOL........

    Those flatties have a funny quirk: the side plate sometimes will not exactly fit to the brake plate, without a jiggle.

    If memory serves, some of them actually had an enlarged screw hole on one side, to help marry the two.

    If the sideplate is not true, even though it looks OK, it isn't. They should come together with a soft audible click. It goes to the casting arm binding against the slot cut for it on the sideplate, and the pinion yoke hanging up on the inner wall of same.
     
  14. ko3579

    ko3579 New Member

    Messages:
    218
    State:
    Frankfort, Ky
    Ok ken i took it apart, the initial problem so that I can make sure that we are on the same page, the reel works well except for that when you go to push the release button to free spool for casting, its then that if you dont have ther handle alligned at the 12:00 and 6:00 position or the 9:00 and 3:00 position then the spool will not disengage for casting, the button just goes in and out. So anyway ive got it apart and it actually looks like this is the way the real is designed because on the bottom of the gear drive there is 2 round pegs made on the bottom that when they are in a certain position they actually keep the release mechanism on the bottom from moving into casting position, then when you rotate the gear a little bit there out of the way and you can cast. That sucks that this is a design because I really like the quality of this real and it is exellent condition, Oh well it will make a good trade I guess, unless some body has a fix for this. Anyway Ken thanks for all your help.
     
  15. Ken D

    Ken D New Member

    Messages:
    160
    State:
    B.C. (CAD)
    Wow... You you would be the first person I'm aware of, to make this obsevation.(handle position) Abu did not let go of this design for over 20 years, and only then because they found a way to make an efficient cast/release system for less parts, therefore less money.

    Try this: let go of the handle before you engage the casting button, and push down on cast button a little harder. You will see the handle move out of the way, and hear two clicks, as both levers are cocked in preparation for release.

    If this does not solve the issue, then there's something else in play, that's hard to divine, long distance. I'm still thinking springs, or crud somewhere in the train.

    I'm going to check with Mike Marcotte at Mike's Reel....he's been in the game since the 70's, and may have run into this before. I'll get back after I check with him. Best, KD
     
  16. ko3579

    ko3579 New Member

    Messages:
    218
    State:
    Frankfort, Ky
    Hi ken, I let go the handle and sure enough it pushed the handle out of the way, never forseen it working like that, but hey whatever works, I appreciate all your help, maybe I will find a home for it on one of my rods, thanks again jason
     
  17. Bill in SC

    Bill in SC New Member

    Messages:
    4,451
    State:
    South Caro
    I'll say that between Ken, and Greg (Snagged2), there's not much going on with an Abu Garcia that they can't diagnose, and/or fix. I recently sent a 6500c3 'Blue Cat' reel to Greg for a diagnosis/repair that befuddled me. He repaired it at a very modest price, and returned it to me. Total time between sending it to him and getting it back was somewhere in the neighborhood of ONE WEEK. I'm SURE the FACTORY wouldn't have that kind of rapid turnaround time! I would HIGHLY recommend Snagged2 for any of my reel repairs, and after reading Ken's posts, I'm sure he would be just as reliable. I thank the both of you reel "experts" for contributing very comprehensive information to your BOC brothers and sisters. It is most appreciated. Reps to Greg and Ken!!!

    Bill in SC
     
  18. Ken D

    Ken D New Member

    Messages:
    160
    State:
    B.C. (CAD)
    Thanks kindly for the nice words....I'm lucky that I have a bit of a "pipeline" to Mike Marcotte of Mike's Reel, in BC, and lots of other Abu lovers around the planet. Steve Barratt in Oz, Magnus Magnussen in Sweden, the great staff at Purefishing, you folks here, Alan Tani in CA, and a bunch of nice folks at the SOL board.

    This gave me the background to work confidently with the Ambassadeur reel, and figure out for myself, various glitches, and not be worried about asking others for a hand, if I get stuck.
    Information was freely given to me, and I'm happy to pass it along to keep folks fishin, and grinnin. Best, KD
     
  19. Ken D

    Ken D New Member

    Messages:
    160
    State:
    B.C. (CAD)
    Good on ya, J....You will probably have more fun with the flattie than other reels in your collection.
    Good fishing.........KD