How far can you go with no lungs or heart?

[Cattn-Jeep]

Sadly it took me 26 years to finally get out and hunt...got my first doe though. I went up to Erie County, PA to hunt. I've seen enough TV shows to know that if you hit a deer square in the chest at ~90 deg angle that it's not going far... So, I shot my deer square in the chest at ~90 deg angle with a 250 gr. poly tip hollow point coming out of a .50 cal muzzle loader at ~1,100 fps from about 15~20 yards away....

...

...

the deer ran away.:ooooh:


Blood trail was about 1 1/4 feet wide and went for about 50 yards...
Both lungs were collapsed and the heart looked like burger...
Has this ever happened to anyone else?

I guess you can't believe everything you see on TV.

[ozzy]

Deer Down! Thats what count. Nice harvest.

[Jacksmooth]

I shot a 4 point with a 270 about 10yrs ago. It destroyed the heart and that deer ran about 400 yards. I think its the adrenalin rush that does it. Only thing they hear is loud bang and its off to the races!

[bownero]

One question I want to bring up is. You shot the deer square in the the chest. Are you referring to shooting the deer in the center in the chest? If that's so, I would consider that shot more of a LIVER shot! It's possible that the shot hit the lungs, but no HEART shot. You said the lungs collapsed and the heart looked like hamburger. Are you sure that was the heart or was it the liver you inspected? I would bet to say the shot hit the lungs and the liver, especially if the shot was made in the center or SQUARE in the chest.

My observation, nevertheless, good job on the recovery. Indeed, deer and other big game can travel for great distances on adreneline when a vital shot is made. This is true when the animal is at full alert or nervous and not in a relaxed state. I try to shoot animals looking the other way or looking down or straight ahead. When I'm spotted by deer looking at me, I try to wait for them to relax, then I'll draw my bow. Sometimes it works and sometimes they win!!:wink:

[on_the_fly]

I shot a doe this past muzzle loader and she run 10 yards and stoped. she was looking around and never knew what happend then I seen her start to sway as she became very unstable in her stance then she took 3 steps and feel over. this past sunday for gun I shot a 8 pointer with my 270 the shot went through the middle of his heart and he ran 30 yards and feel over. last year I shot a nice 6 pointer that I got both lungs but was a little high so no heart and that deer run about 200 yards and the first 100 yards was straight up a steep hill before he turned around and run back down the hill into a flat.I belive that they get so pumped on fear and adrenilen they will run as long as they still feel threatend. that is why it is key to stay put for at least 30 to 45 mins befor tracking. I have had deer run 20 yards and lay down till they died. and a bad loss two years ago my boy shot one and hit it in her shoulder that deer went 10 yards in the woods from the field my son keep pushing me for us to go and claim his deer well I got about ten mins out of him then we walked over only to find that deer jumped straight up and ran off never to be seen again, I fully belive that deer would have stayed right there and bleed out and died if we gave enough time. NOW my son listens when I say we need to give it time.
and to add the only deer I have ever seen or heard of falling where they were shot were head shots, then they drop like a sack of potatos.

[bownero]

scratch the last post! Are you referring to shooting the deer facing you? Frontal shot? if so, that's a risky shot and the shot angle gives you less of a target. Go for the broadside shot. Right behind the shoulder. Double lung or heart shot.

I'm glad you recovered the deer. If I'm understanding your post correctly, be more selective on the shot next time. Broadside or quartering away gives the best shot angle. Gun, bow or any weapon!!

[primitive]

This is some different but several years ago I hit a 8 point whitetail buck exactly center of the heart clean through, 4 blade arrow head. That buck ran over 80 yards at moc speed. It wasn't that I was that good of a shot but he went into a quik crouch apon hearing the bow twang or I might of shot too low. Also arrowed one through both lungs and the big artery in one shoulder and it bucked and ran around 70 yards. When you hear someone say they shot a deer with a arrow and it dropped in it's tracks, it had to be a spine, brain shot, OR they shot it with a gun and ran a arrow through the bullet hole. Just my opinion, but after those two happenings I know it takes a lot to bring a deer down, gun or arrow.

[brother hilljack]

I once shot a deer straight thru both lungs with a 12 gauge slug and it run for about half a mile. No worries there was plenty of blood

[DIESELkat]

I shot a doe this past muzzle loader and she run 10 yards and stoped. she was looking around and never knew what happend then I seen her start to sway as she became very unstable in her stance then she took 3 steps and feel over. this past sunday for gun I shot a 8 pointer with my 270 the shot went through the middle of his heart and he ran 30 yards and feel over. last year I shot a nice 6 pointer that I got both lungs but was a little high so no heart and that deer run about 200 yards and the first 100 yards was straight up a steep hill before he turned around and run back down the hill into a flat.I belive that they get so pumped on fear and adrenilen they will run as long as they still feel threatend. that is why it is key to stay put for at least 30 to 45 mins befor tracking. I have had deer run 20 yards and lay down till they died. and a bad loss two years ago my boy shot one and hit it in her shoulder that deer went 10 yards in the woods from the field my son keep pushing me for us to go and claim his deer well I got about ten mins out of him then we walked over only to find that deer jumped straight up and ran off never to be seen again, I fully belive that deer would have stayed right there and bleed out and died if we gave enough time. NOW my son listens when I say we need to give it time.
and to add the only deer I have ever seen or heard of falling where they were shot were head shots, then they drop like a sack of potatos.

First off I dont want you to think Im accusing you of doing this sort of thing, I just want to shed some light on personal experiences Ive had with the almight headshot.
They will drop like a sack of potatos if they are actually hit in the brain. I have seen too many deer that for what ever reason were shot in the "head" and didnt die....well not for an excrusiatingly long time. To me it is very unethical to try a head shot unless it is to finish off a deer that has already been rendered immobile by a chest shot. I have personally seen deer with the lower jaws shot off that were never going to be recovered so there I am burning a doe tag because someone else decided they were a good enough shot to hit a softball sized target at whatever range and there was no way I was going to let the animal suffer.

I would really hope that anyone who has ever seen one of these deer is too ashamed of their fellow hunters/morally shocked/ethically enlightened/apalled at the sight of one of these deer to never attempt it themselves. I dont really want to get all Texas Chainsaw Massacre on everyone here, but ive seen deer that were hit in the jaw and it was completely gone, giving the deer no way to eat or drink, but not losing enough blood to die of blood loss, it would be a race between dehydration and infection. Ive seen deer with noses shot nearly off, and deer with throats clearly shot but not hitting the jugular. I watched one that was hit in the throat and the bullet severed the windpipe and opened the neck up clean across the throat patch. I couldnt get a shot at it as it bedded behind a multiflora rose bush and I was in my stand. The deers windpipe finally retracted into its throat and I listened as it choked to death on its own blood. I was 13 years old and it almost got me out of hunting. Im not saying that a quartering away shot is the only way to go, and it really depends on the weapon, but a head shot gone bad is a terrible way to go.

[flathunter]

I have shot 8 deer in my life, they have all droped in there tracks...None of them were head shots..They were all heart lung shots from the side.

6 have been with a 12 guage and 2 have been with a cross bow.

I shot a 10 point several years ago with my crossbow at 20 yds, hit him right behind the from shoulder, he droped straight down and never got up.

I must be very lucky to never have had a deer run after being shot.

[kennylee]

Ivan, 50 yards is not that far for a deer to go after being shoot in the heart and lungs. I think thats a mistake many new hunters make when they shoot at deer and it runs off.

My best friend and long time hunting buddy brought his brother,Frank,up to the farm for his first deer hunt, I set him down opening morning, then went to my stand to hunt, after a few hours I went back and got him and we worked our way up the clear cut (pipe line goes through my place), anyway I see a doe standing in the woods on the otherside about 90 yards, motion for him to stop and took a few more steps to get a clear shot, when I shot the deer took off running. Frank said, I didn't even see that deer until you shot (he really did think I was fooling with him), and then he said to bad you missed. I just laughed and said follow me, that deer crashed down in the creek about 50 yards from were I shot it at, we walked down to the creek and there she layed.

Frank got his 1st deer that year, at 45 years old, and for me it was the same as if I took a young kid with me to get their 1st.

I mostly bow hunt these days but I have shot deer standing broadside with my bow, double lung and have had them take off running all out as far as 150 yards before piling up.

[Kansas Tree Rat]

The shots you see on TV where the deer curls up and falls over is more in the shoulder area. You loose a lot of meat that way but most of the TV guys arn't really conserned about that. With a well placed shot "behind" the leg you get heart and or lungs and they will run a ways. I have not hunted with a rifle in years but every deer I ever shot with one ran 50 to 100 yards shot through the lungs.
Double lungs with a bow and most deer are down in 6 seconds. I would guess about the same with a rifle. A deer can cover a lot of ground in 6 seconds.

[mr.whiskers83]

In my personal experience a heart shot on a deer is overrated and is a much smaller target that is low in the chest cavity. I will take a lung shot over a heart shot any day of the week. The only thing is that when you shot for a heart shot your gonna hut the lungs regardless if you hit the heart. A lung shot is just as deadly as a heart shot and is a guaranteed kill, plus they don't usually run as far with a lung shot as with a heart shot from my experience. You can completely destroy the heart and a deer will run a couple hundred yards before falling and be dead on the hoof but the adrenaline causes it to keep running.

I know people enjoy watching hunting shows and I am one of them but basing what I call an average persons hunt on something on t.v. is not even close. At least not in my area of the woods its not. And usually when a deer is dropped in its tracks with a shot the bullet being used has a great deal of energy behind it and it basically knocks the air completely out of the animal and knocks them down and they can't get back on most occasions. I have had it happen but its rare and tracking an animal is normal and a 50 yard track is pretty minimal and normal for a lung and heart shot.

[jlingle]

About 8 years ago, I shot a doe through the heart with a 180 gr. soft point bullet from a 30-06. I was 30 yards away when I shot her, perfectly broadside, and I blew a large part of her heart out the other side of the doe. She didn't really leave a bloodtrail, more of a 3' wide mist of blood, and she went 120 yards. I couldn't believe my eyes. I literally thought I'd missed her, because she took off and ran so well after the shot. Deer aren't superanimals, they'll die when you shoot them..... but sometimes they don't follow the rules & fall dead at your feet.

[DANZIG]

Had 'em drop, had 'em run.

Shot one a couple years ago from 15 ft. Getting dark, I was quitting, stood up(ground stand) and lit a smoke when he and his bigger buddy come wandering down the trail.

There I am, busted for sure, cloud of smoke round my head, rifle pointed down in one hand, and the small one walking right toward me.

At 15ft he turns broad side. I knew I had to try him or lose out on both. Dropped the smoke, threw up the rifle and snap shot for the chest. Little buck just falls over.
Walked over and looked for a bullet wound, did not see one. I thought I had just scared him to death! :smile2::smile2:
Did not find the holes(almost no blood) till I 'processed him the next day.

[katfish ken]

Some run and some don't
Congrats on the great recovery.
Been deer hunting for 25 yrs. Out of 50 to 60 deer I've recovered or help recover. I've seen deer shot through the heart and lungs with a rifle run 200 yards. I've seen deer shot with arrow through the hind quarters run 60 yards before dying. I've seen deer drop on their tracks when shot.
I think deer are like humans in the respect that some want to live more than others.

[Cattn-Jeep]

I guess I wasn't detailed enough about the shot to make everyone happy...so here are the "grizzly" details.

Doe was shot across lateral chest line from left side to right side.
Doe fell on face, turned, and ran.
Noticed right front leg bloody.
Bullet seemed to have fully expanded as it went through front left leg bone about 2"
below shoulder blade.
One piece of copper recovered from left front leg bone.
After passing through leg bone, bullet entered chest cavity pushing two 1 1/2" rib pieces
from two adjacent ribs along with some leg bone into cavity.
Bullet cut perfect semi-circle along bottom of heart, heart ruptured.
Doe was found laying on left side.
Heart was clearly visible through racket ball size hole.
Lungs were collapsed.
No ribs found broken on right side.
Bullet passed just behind/below each shoulder blade.
Right leg forward and left leg back when shot.
Bruising extended along left side of spine from just below head to six inches or so
before tail including 75% of left ribcage.

Hope thats enough. :wink:

[223reload]

A soaking overnite in cold salt water will pull 90% of that blood from what you are calling " bruising" ,Its still edible ,dont throw it out.

[on_the_fly]

I agree Richard alot of meat is wasted on people thinking that a little "brussing" is bad when in fact it will come out and I feel a person should losse anymore than a two inch circle around a bullet hole and even less if it was shot with an arrow the "brussing" to me doent not seem as bad with a bow.

[dust777man]

I have shot 8 deer in my life, they have all droped in there tracks...None of them were head shots..They were all heart lung shots from the side.

6 have been with a 12 guage and 2 have been with a cross bow.

I shot a 10 point several years ago with my crossbow at 20 yds, hit him right behind the from shoulder, he droped straight down and never got up.

I must be very lucky to never have had a deer run after being shot.

Yes you are very lucky. The next 8 you might shoot in the same exact place and this time they might run. I have had it happen to me.

[Cattn-Jeep]

A soaking overnite in cold salt water will pull 90% of that blood from what you are calling " bruising" ,Its still edible ,dont throw it out.

What I am calling a bruise is coagulated blood that's "stuck" between the muscle and the skin. It scraped out quite easily, and the meat was not thrown away. The only meat not kept was the stuff that was...um...what's the word...soupy...stringy...falling apart inside of itself?

[DANZIG]

New info suggests you should not try to save the blood shot meat.
Though the contamination may have come from the semi-commercial processing.
http://www.ultimatedeerhunting.com/news/2008/03/27/deer-meat-donated-to-needy-being-tested-for-lead/

[rairdog]

The one in my avatar ran 250 yds with a double lung bow shot. The weird thing was when it took off the arrow was only in about 4 inches. I gave it a half hour and went back to camp and gave it another 2 hours. I was using spitfires and it went thru the middle of a rib on one side and halfway thru a rib on the other side. Come to find out it bounced, blades collapsed and it almost came completely out. Not much off a blood trail. I traded in the bow for one with more kinetic energy. It was a 253 pound deer with pretty thick ribs. Trailing a wounded deer adds more thrill to the hunt for me. Double lung shots give a much better margin for error and normally a better blood trail. It gives a better chance for a pass thu shot and less broken 10 dollar arrows when the deer crotches to take off and it hits the shoulder blade. JMO

[katfish ken]

I enjoy the trailing aspect of the hunt as well. As long as I find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow so to speak. I think there is an art to the trailing of a wounded animal that a lot of people lose out on with the use of large caliber rifles. I think there should be a course of trailing along with the hunter safety course. But then to it would be hard to find someone to teach it in the right way..

[lance]

all things are possible when deer hunting . My father in law shot a deer that clipped both lungs a little far back (things happen) at any rate that deer went app. a mile before it bled out . He has hunted for 35 yrs . His tracking skills and determination is what found that deer . The skill of trailing game is Very important . A deer can jump or move at anytime always remember amiss may not be a miss !

[katfish ken]

all things are possible when deer hunting . My father in law shot a deer that clipped both lungs a little far back (things happen) at any rate that deer went app. a mile before it bled out . He has hunted for 35 yrs . His tracking skills and determination is what found that deer . The skill of trailing game is Very important . A deer can jump or move at anytime always remember amiss may not be a miss !

Lots of inexperienced hunter don't realize the importance of that part of the hunt and few people have the determination it takes to track game that fare. Peroxide in a spray bottle is a great tool when tracking gets tough.It make a spot of blood that has turned brown on leaves or grass turn white. Just a tip.

[Wil]

a kid at my school said he got double lung and heart on a doe and she ran 200 yards.. but this is also the same kid who says he snuck up on a flock of snow geese carryin 9 shotguns, fired them all empty, and killed 52 geese in the time it took them to fly away, oh and he can shoot 16 hand thrown blue rock before they hit the ground.

[Kansas Tree Rat]

I enjoy the trailing aspect of the hunt as well. As long as I find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow so to speak. I think there is an art to the trailing of a wounded animal that a lot of people lose out on with the use of large caliber rifles. I think there should be a course of trailing along with the hunter safety course. But then to it would be hard to find someone to teach it in the right way..
I agree. As a bowhunter, trailing after the shot is one of the most exciting parts of the hunt. I almost hate it when they go down within sight. Then the hunt is over and it is all work from there.

[Jacksmooth]

I have only lost one deer in the 20 yrs I have been deer hunting. I searched for that deer from 1pm til about 1am with 4 friends and then for about 4hrs the next day and still couldnt find it. Bad thing is I know she had to have died with the amount of blood she lost. I could not tell you how far she went but that was about the most walking I have ever done hunting or looking for a deer. I think if you hit one you should look as hard as you can for one. I have seen many hunters that wouldve given up after 100yards if I had not been with them. Its not the easiest work sometimes to find them but my consience feels better if Ive given it my all.

[Cattn-Jeep]

I agree. As a bowhunter, trailing after the shot is one of the most exciting parts of the hunt. I almost hate it when they go down within sight. Then the hunt is over and it is all work from there.

Hmm...maybe I'm funny...

Tracking seemed easy to me, not blood, but tracks through the swamp where I spent my first 3 days. I was able to creep/crawl along and follow the deer until I got bored of it usually within an hour or two, or after they ran me in a circle. They always seemed to be just out of sight...just ahead...so close I could actually smell them. I knew I was never too far behind because the droppings were still so warm that I could feel the warmth from up to about 2 inches above them.

The hunt to me seemed not so much exciting, but more like a chore, a chore that I wanted to do. The only time I got excited was when we were field dressing and I got my first glimpse of the meat...MMMMmmm...I'm sure my eyes sparkled.

I was overseas in Japan when my first was born, and ever since then I had this incredible urge to hunt. I had to wait until I got back stateside though. It was my first hunt and I think that after my first deer, I'm hooked for life. I processed it myself too, it was a lot easier than I expected. It seems that the hardest part should be the easiest- finding somewhere nearby to hunt. I should move to Alaska...maybe Manitoba...

[katfish ken]

I have only lost one deer in the 20 yrs I have been deer hunting. I searched for that deer from 1pm til about 1am with 4 friends and then for about 4hrs the next day and still couldnt find it. Bad thing is I know she had to have died with the amount of blood she lost. I could not tell you how far she went but that was about the most walking I have ever done hunting or looking for a deer. I think if you hit one you should look as hard as you can for one. I have seen many hunters that wouldve given up after 100yards if I had not been with them. Its not the easiest work sometimes to find them but my consience feels better if Ive given it my all.

We as hunters all need to take this type of attitude. I know I've seen animals left in the field that should not have been. Cases where just parts of the deer was taken or just left all together. It's like one bad apple will spoil the hole barrels, so is the reputation of hunters.

[Jacksmooth]

We as hunters all need to take this type of attitude. I know I've seen animals left in the field that should not have been. Cases where just parts of the deer was taken or just left all together. It's like one bad apple will spoil the hole barrels, so is the reputation of hunters.

I agree. One I owe to the animal. Two I have put my time and effort into the hunt. I dont like losing them.

[Snagged2]

A lot of hunters in Africa learned that the best way to STOP an animal was to break them down mechanically,,ie, break the front shoulders, which usually involves some nasty trauma to other important stuff. So, the animal being down, bleeds to death and doesn't eat YOU. Some pretty exciting accounts around of lions with their brainpan shot out, still getting to the hunter and ruining his day,,:sad2:,Most OLD african hunters would put an insurance shot or 2 into the animal from the backside...:wink:
But, we're not in Africa...
Sometimes the shock of the bullet impact renders an animal unconscious, the animal goes down and they bleed to death that way.
I'm sure a lot of people with their new massive magnum are totally disgusted when they see a dead animal run off,:ooooh:
The more I hunt the more I'm convinced that every animal and shot are unique, and having shot a couple deer, antelope, and elk, in different positions, with different hunting weapons, have come to the conclusion that you have to be prepared for anything after the shot, but, If you've done your homework, you should know that you just killed the thing, whether it's where you think it should be or not. Some wounds can inflict a painful wound,, like a liver shot, seems to do that, and make them sick acting, so they lay down, they may go into shock, get stiff and die right there. Most animals I've shot through the heart and/or lungs go for a short ways till their hydraulics cease to function, and they die in their last stride...
Also, to all the above posts,,, thanks for sharing that all your shots Might not have been double lung, or heart!! It just doesn't always work out that way:wink:

[katfish ken]

A lot of hunters in Africa learned that the best way to STOP an animal was to break them down mechanically,,ie, break the front shoulders, which usually involves some nasty trauma to other important stuff. So, the animal being down, bleeds to death and doesn't eat YOU. Some pretty exciting accounts around of lions with their brainpan shot out, still getting to the hunter and ruining his day,,:sad2:,Most OLD african hunters would put an insurance shot or 2 into the animal from the backside...:wink:
But, we're not in Africa...
Sometimes the shock of the bullet impact renders an animal unconscious, the animal goes down and they bleed to death that way.
I'm sure a lot of people with their new massive magnum are totally disgusted when they see a dead animal run off,:ooooh:
The more I hunt the more I'm convinced that every animal and shot are unique, and having shot a couple deer, antelope, and elk, in different positions, with different hunting weapons, have come to the conclusion that you have to be prepared for anything after the shot, but, If you've done your homework, you should know that you just killed the thing, whether it's where you think it should be or not. Some wounds can inflict a painful wound,, like a liver shot, seems to do that, and make them sick acting, so they lay down, they may go into shock, get stiff and die right there. Most animals I've shot through the heart and/or lungs go for a short ways till their hydraulics cease to function, and they die in their last stride...
Also, to all the above posts,,, thanks for sharing that all your shots Might not have been double lung, or heart!! It just doesn't always work out that way:wink:
You have brought out some very important fact about hunting.
Prime example in next post (will continue)

[katfish ken]

You have brought out some very important fact about hunting.
Prime example in next post (will continue)

I shot a deer one evening, good clean double lung shot. It walked 30 yds. and laid down. In hast wanting to get out of the woods before dark set in. I walked down to the animal poked it in the hind quarter, it jumped up and started running . I Was hunting with a lever action that evening.Not wanting the deer to get any farther down in the ravine . I shot at it 4 more times. Upon field dressing and skinning the deer I found to my surprise that I had made contact with every shot. First shot had taken out both lungs. 2 of the other 4 had passed through a lung and the other 2 had landed in the neck and hind quarter.
Lesson learned from this experience was:: Let it lay once it laies down and give it time to expire gracefully. Never rush a wounded animal.
This is not a story or an experience that I'm proud of. Nor do I tell it often as this is the only deer I ever shot more than once. But I found it fitting and hope it will help some one else Learn from my mistake.
This was many years ago when I was a much younger man and the lack of knowledge is what I mark this experience up to.
Hope this helps someone..