what gun to buy?

[thecatman]

ok guys what gun should i buy for my first deer hunting rifle i kind of want a 30-30 lever action but what is everyones oppinion on good starter rifles for deer hunting

[Kutter]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and make a statement that I doubt few would disagree with.
"Over time, more deer have been killed with a 30-30 than any other round, with almost all of those being with a lever action."

That said, it is a fine choice to start with for most folks. Now, a lot may depend on where you are hunting. Most 30-30 shots are within 150 yards or less, as well as in thick brush. If you hunt an area that is wide open spaces, you might be better off with a different choice.

[223reload]

Tom,I agree mostly ,Except that the 30-30 has been responsible for more GAME that any other rifle. They have killed alot of elk,antelope and hogs too.

If you don't anticipate shots more than 200 yds ,a 30-30 will do fine. If you do then 243,7mm/08,308,370,257,25/06,30/06 will all work and if ya just feel real tough theres a ton of magnums out there.

That being said. Theres no excuse for not shooting all that you ca and really knowing what you and your gun can and will do in certain circumstances. The more you shoot it the better you will understand it and you will gain a wealth of knoweledge about that gun. good luck and good hunting.

[thecatman]

i'm not too worried about shooting distance as i have been able to easily sneak up on a lot of wild game before and dont see why i wouldnt beable to now thanks for all the info

[CountryHart]

I agree with Tom. Thousands of deer are killed annually with a 30-30. I shoot a 270 because of it's ability to shoot greater distances more accurately. Really depends how far ya gonna be shootin and what ya like. I prefer a bolt action but auto's, pumps and lever guns are also good choices. Rugar makes a #1 single shot that i covet. Most of my deer are either dropped the first shot, or i usually miss.:confused2:

[Kutter]

I heard a rumor that Countryheart went out and got a new outfit for deerseason this year.:wink:
He's gonna be a deerslayin machine this fall.

[CountryHart]

All i need is a good driver now.:smile2::smile2::smile2: And lots of bullets.

[switchback]

I would have to agree with them all a 30 30 is awesome im not allowed to hunt deer with them here in illinois but i own one and so does my dad and we both love them dearly. Not to mention the ammo isnt outrageous either.

[CopeMan]

Im with these guys 30 30 is an all round great gun. Its one of those i dont use much anymore cept for hogs because i can shoot greater distances but I will always have one need it or not. Its kinda like an ol faithful. Now i shoot winchester bolt action 270 or 300 ablot stainless stalker.

[bigcatmaniac]

I have owned a few rifles in recent years, but the one that i ALWAYS take into the woods with me is my 30-30. I have owned and shot a .270, a 30-06, a .308, and a .243, all of which are great firearms if you have the need for them. I still have my 30-06 in case i decide to go somewhere and hunt other game. But i will always own a 30-30.


Good luck this season.

[Biluecat]

My First Rifle was 25/06 bought it when I was 18yrs old and have it today at 41.
Remington model 700ADL I would sell it for anything, many deer have fallen to this Caliber and make.
As far as a so called "brush" gun there is "NO" such thing. Its the construction of the bullet not the caliber that will travel straighter through brush... EVERY BULLET CAN BE DEFLECTED by branches or twigs the size of a toothpick!! if brush is that thick do ya really know what your shooting at?? Be Safe, and good luck! 25/06 has great muzzle velocity and energy and can easily be zeroed in at 250 yds

[channelkatman]

im gonna tell you what most everyone else has. its hard to beat a good ol .30-30 lever action. ive got a marlin that i took my first deer with and i plan to take many a more with it.

[thecatman]

ok what brand would be best to get i dont want to spend an arm and a leg for it but i want something nice as well

[Kutter]

I've had both Marlin & Winchester, in lever action 30-30. Both are good guns, but the Winchester has the disadvantage of the spent shells being ejected straight up, making a pain to have a scope. It can be done, but still a pain. I have had the Marlin since 1976 and still use it when on drives or still hunting through thick stuff. It's great for quick fast shots, comes to the shoulder easy and quick to line up target.
I know there are a few other brands out there, but I have not used them.

[porboy]

Lots of choices for you. Nothing wrong with a 30-30. Have always had one but in this part of Texas long shots are the norm so I still use the 30-06, 243,
25-06 and several other cals first.

[ratkinson]

All the cowboy guns are fun. The 30-30 and 35 rem are often listed in "top dear round" articles. I have 3 other suggestions for you............the .270, the .270, and the um .270.

Richard

[catfishsafari]

Hey Brandon; Well I'm going to say something nobody ever wants to hear, but here go's. "The 30-30 lever action is a very poor choice for deer hunting". I know a lot of deer have been killed with it , but thats because everybody has one. They are "very inaccurate" and have "poor" ballistics they are pretty much a high powered slingshot. I owned and operated a rifle range for years and I saw hundreds of 30-30's come in. I never saw one that would pattern decent at 100yrds. I know what people are going to say, My 30-30 will!!. Well it wont!. The basic design of the rifle is very flawed. If you want a fun rifle to plink with you cant beat a 30-30. However if you want a serious deer rifle PLEASE!!!!! buy something else.

So what to buy?. I know what most people will tell you to get. 3006 or a 270. they are not bad choices however there are better. First the reason why most people buy the top 3 ( 30-30, 3006, 270) is because they are everywhere. Any gun store you go to will have the top three in stock and that can be a big advantage. For instance that means you can find ammo anywhere and thats good.

Here are some better choices. #1 308, #2 280,#3 7wsm.The 3006 is a good round however a 308 is much better. The 308 has very close to the same "power" as a 3006 but is a lot more accurate and is a short action rifle. 308 are known for " Tack driving Accuracy ". I personally have shot thousands of rounds through 308's. Also the recoil is not bad at all. I think this is the best all around choice.

280 vs 270. Ballistics are the same how ever bullet choices for the 270 lack. If you don't already know the 270/280 are necked down 3006 cases. The 280 is necked down to 7mm. the second most popular bullet in the world just behind the 30cal. If you ever get into reloading this is a BIG advantage.


7wsm vs 7mag. (winchester short mag). If you need a long range rifle it's hard to beat the 7wsm. The 7mag is ok but harder to reload and is a long action rifle. The 7wsm is a short action rifle, So you get as much power or more in a smaller rifle. This is because a short fat case burns powder much better than a long thin case. Same for the 308 vs 3006.

I know this is a long drawn out post, But rifles aren't cheap you want to make an informed choice.

Now as far as what brand rifle to buy thats another story. If I can help in anyway feel free to call.

Thanks Steve...66-438-3135

[lance]

I agree I have heard the same thing about accuracy of the 30-30 . That being said I also don't know about sneeking up on deer I have on accasion yes not consistantly . Now I own a 30-30 and use it every season . It was inherited so I will always probably use it . I have shot deer out to about a 90-100 yards no problem . I wouldn't shoot farther than that myself . I know what I am capable of doing with my gun . The best shot was acoyote onthe run probably pushing a 100 yds. First shot was behind the ribs . aA second shot to finish the job. Pick your gun shoot as much as you can . Buy something thats decent that you can afford . Most of al KNOW YOUR LIMITATIONS . It doesn't matter if you buy a 270 or 280 or 300 or any of the other calibers plain and simple if you can't put the bullet where it needs to go don't shoot . There are guys that CAN hit deer @ 2 or 300 yds. even with agreat rifle I know my limitations and wouldn't try a 300 yrd. shot I owe the deer that respect to not wound and let it suffer or get away .

[wylie catter]

You asked what brand, I would say Marlin. They're reasonable priced and will last you forever. I've had one just like everybody else on here. The Winchester top ejection is just a problem that aint worth dealing with.imo

And I pretty much agree with everything catfishsafari said , but, If where you live is anything like where I live most of the deer are killed within 50 yards. A lot of the high powered magnums are over kill.

A dern 22 will kill a deer. It's a thin skinned animal. The last deer I shot with my 270 poked a perfect tiny little hole straight though him. It didn't hit any bones. Luckily I got his heart so he only ran about 50 yards on adrenaline. And I shot that deer from about 15 yards away. My point is if I would have shot him with a slug it probably would have cut him a flip.
Velocity isn't everything. just my $.02

[223reload]

BRUSH GUN,In my opinion a brush gun isn't one you blast at game through brush,But a short well handling gun that you can move through brush with.

[chambers bd]

Nothing wrong with a 444 marlin.:big_smile:

[Katmandeux]

Later model Winchesters have Angle Ejection (AE), so you can top mount a scope with no problems. They are lighter than Marlins, and for me, at least, "carry" better.

Mine will shoot a box of ammo into a 2" circle, and that's plenty good for me.

There's only one thing that I really dislike about .30-30 lever guns: unloading. You have to run every one of the cartriges through the chamber with the hammer back. Spooky. Always point the weapon straight up when unloading.

[ratkinson]

Hey Brandon; Well I'm going to say something nobody ever wants to hear, but here go's. "The 30-30 lever action is a very poor choice for deer hunting". I know a lot of deer have been killed with it , but thats because everybody has one. They are "very inaccurate" and have "poor" ballistics they are pretty much a high powered slingshot. I owned and operated a rifle range for years and I saw hundreds of 30-30's come in. I never saw one that would pattern decent at 100yrds. I know what people are going to say, My 30-30 will!!. Well it wont!. The basic design of the rifle is very flawed. If you want a fun rifle to plink with you cant beat a 30-30. However if you want a serious deer rifle PLEASE!!!!! buy something else.

So what to buy?. I know what most people will tell you to get. 3006 or a 270. they are not bad choices however there are better. First the reason why most people buy the top 3 ( 30-30, 3006, 270) is because they are everywhere. Any gun store you go to will have the top three in stock and that can be a big advantage. For instance that means you can find ammo anywhere and thats good.

Here are some better choices. #1 308, #2 280,#3 7wsm.The 3006 is a good round however a 308 is much better. The 308 has very close to the same "power" as a 3006 but is a lot more accurate and is a short action rifle. 308 are known for " Tack driving Accuracy ". I personally have shot thousands of rounds through 308's. Also the recoil is not bad at all. I think this is the best all around choice.

280 vs 270. Ballistics are the same how ever bullet choices for the 270 lack. If you don't already know the 270/280 are necked down 3006 cases. The 280 is necked down to 7mm. the second most popular bullet in the world just behind the 30cal. If you ever get into reloading this is a BIG advantage.


7wsm vs 7mag. (winchester short mag). If you need a long range rifle it's hard to beat the 7wsm. The 7mag is ok but harder to reload and is a long action rifle. The 7wsm is a short action rifle, So you get as much power or more in a smaller rifle. This is because a short fat case burns powder much better than a long thin case. Same for the 308 vs 3006.

I know this is a long drawn out post, But rifles aren't cheap you want to make an informed choice.

Now as far as what brand rifle to buy thats another story. If I can help in anyway feel free to call.

Thanks Steve...66-438-3135

Steve,
All very helpful information, and, for the most part I agree with your post. However I believe the question was what would be a good "first deer rifle". That is why I a answered as I did. As a hard core deer hunter you and I both know, over time, it will not be the only rifle in the gun safe. I think for a first deer rifle it would be a toss up between the 30-06 and the .270. You know my preference. Heck for years all I had to hunt with was a beat up mossberg 16 gauge, and it was a heck of a meat gun. He says his style of hunt is spot, stalk, and close range shots. I think the short mags would be overkill for that style of hunting. Does your offer to call and pick your brain on guns stand for others as well. I'd like to speek With someone who has some knowledge/experience with the short mags.

Richard

[catfishsafari]

Hey Richard; I think the 3006 or the 270 are fine rounds. The only advantage to the 280 is if you reload. If you don't the 270 is a better choice because of easy ammo access. Same go's for the 3006. The 3006 has some disadvantages. Such as it is seriously down loaded from the factory. This is due to the older military rifles. They cant handle the pressures of modern ammo. So ammo manufactures are forced to down load the 3006 in fear people will start blowing guns up.

For a first rifle I still think the 30-30 lever action is a very poor choice if anything it is better suited for the advanced shooter. The reason I say that is ,It is very under powered and very in accurate. Something the advanced shooter can compensate for. Even mounted with a top quality scope they don't shoot well due to there flawed design. I'm not saying you can't hit deer size targets all day long at 100yrds. Theres just a lot better choices.

Spot and Stalk rifles. Your right a 7mag is not a good choice for a " brush" gun. However a 270 is over kill also. I you look up the ballistics of a 270 it is pretty much a scaled down 7mag. Thats great for a long range " bean field " rifle, but a little much for a brush gun. The term brush gun has always bothered me by the way. A brush gun is a compact, powerful, light weight,fast shooting easy to carry rifle. This would leave out any long action rifle such as 3006 or 270. they are too big, heavy and slow to reload.
Thats why I like the 308 for a "brush gun". It is a short action rifle, light weight compact, easy to carry, almost as powerful as the 3006/270 and more accurate than the 3006/270. The 30cal bullet is the most popular bullet in the world if you get into reloading this is a huge advantage.

Here where I live we climb into a deer stand and shoot thru the woods 100yrds or less for the most part. When you hunt in the woods there are a lot of branches limbs ect. in the way. The 308 is a tack driver, so you can "thread the needle" thru the woods so to speak. Being compact they are great for a deer stand rifle.

I don't want you to think I don't like the 30-30/270/3006 I do and I own them all (no collection would be complete without them) I just think there not the right tool for the job all the time. Now if you want a long range "beanfield gun" that's different.

Just my opinion...Thanks Steve..

[kat in the hat]

I'm with Steve. There is nothing accurate about a lever action carbine. As long as there are better options available, it makes no sense to intentionally choose the "inferior" choice. Any bolt action rifle will out shoot any lever action rifle regardless of caliber. I think with the 30/30, there is an amount of nostalgia that people hold on to.

Here is a Remington .243 WITH a scope (albeit probably not the best scope in the whole world) for $350.
http://http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=98771

Here is a Marlin 30/30. No scope (as if you even need one with a 30/30), or any other frills. $530. That checkered hardwood does look nice, but it doesn't improve accuracy.
http://http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/default.aspx?item=336C

All sentimental value, and nostalgic appeal aside, I think for the money ANY bolt action is a much better decision. I'm sure you can find a decent .308 for less than $500.

[223reload]

Gentlemen,If the young man really wants a 30-30 we shouldnt try to sway him to get something else. I know we all have our fav cartridges , But Lets try and help him with the original question. I love my marlin 30-30. I dont hunt with it,WHY? Because it was bought as an open sighted TARGET gun. I hunt deer here in New Mexico with a OLD Rem model 788 in 243. It dont kick ,and I can group 3 shots inside of a nickle at 100 yds ,ALL DAY LONG. and I've yet to shoot but a single deer more than once . Most of my shots have been inside 100 yds . You can get close IF you WANT to .I dont believe in Magnum power for hunting our North American game. I think most hunters are LAZY and LACK in hunting skills required to get close. OK I"M DONE RANTING .:smile2::smile2::smile2:

[catfishsafari]

Hey Richard; If you own a Rem.788/243 you are spoiled my friend. The Rem.788 is a Tack Driver. and 243 to boot. For those of you who don't already know the Rem. 788 was made as an econo gun.

However with there nine locking lug system they would out shoot any high dollar Rem. on the market. After a short time Rem. stopped making them because they were hurting there own sales of the 700 Rem.

If you like accuracy the 788 is hard to beat. However they are getting hard to find at a good price.

[223reload]

Steve,the only thing better than having a 788 in 243 is also having one in 223 Rem. :wink:

[lance]

There ARE Worse choices than the 30-30 . And better I have said my 2 cents worth earlier . When I first moved away from home the prodigal son didn't take his guns had a falling out with the family blah blah .... I bought a SKS which had the standard magazine . Killed 2 deer with it and gave it to my brother . The cost 89.00 new .Almost 20 years ago but was the cheapest thing going and Legal as long as it only held 9 rounds I THINK . This was truly not accurate nor a deer stopper FOR ME . The 30-30 has seen every deer season since then . The sks shot a 7.62 by 39 some may like it but not for me . Would love to add a 243 to the cabinet ! But as Mick Jagger said You Can't Always Get What You Want !

[catfishsafari]

Amen!!!! John. I have never found a rifle I didn't like based off the 308 case. They are a light recoil, accurate, and deadly rifle within there limits. What else could you ask for.

[thecatman]

thanks for all the input guys i really appreciate it another thing i forgot to mention is i'm not a first time shooter i shoot with my brothers guns but we have arguements over that kinda stuff and what not (he thinks he's always right about anything and everything) as well as being in the army you have to know how to shoot as far as pop-up targets go i usually do well better open sights than with scope though but usually i hit anywhere from 28-34 out of 40 only because sometimes i cant see those 300yd targets with the naked eye lol but like i said thanks for all the information i really appreciate it this is helping alot on choosing the proper rifle for my hunting needs

[kennylee]

I'm not a big fan of the 30-30 round, but if you are wanting a lever action rifle, they come chambered for other rounds, not just for 30-30. There are also some bullet mfg's that are addressing the problem of tip distortion by making bullets with a plastic tip that are designed to be used in lever actions.

[opposum]

I personally don't like the 3030 lever action for a couple of reasons. First of all accuracy. I've owned one and since have traded it. Second of all when you work the action you've cocked the hammer. This could be a safety issue with an inexperience shooter. Bolt action in my opinion is the way to go. I have a bolt action Rem 3006 and love it.

If you purchase a rifle don't skimp on the scope. The rifle you buy is only as good as the scope you put on it. I personally like the Leupold.

[iabowhunter]

If you purchase a rifle don't skimp on the scope. The rifle you buy is only as good as the scope you put on it. I personally like the Leupold.
AMEN!!!! A good quality scope will make all the difference in the world.

A 30-30 lever action is an awesome little rifle and fun to shoot. It's just not the right size for me. The stock length is way to short. It seems that when I shoulder one I have to pull it back a mile to make contact with my shoulder. I want my rifle or shotgun to slide into position. Does that make sense?:smile2: After deciding what make and model you want go to a gun shop and shoulder the rifles and see which one feels the best.

[223reload]

I personally don't like the 3030 lever action for a couple of reasons. First of all accuracy. I've owned one and since have traded it. Second of all when you work the action you've cocked the hammer. This could be a safety issue with an inexperience shooter. Bolt action in my opinion is the way to go. I have a bolt action Rem 3006 and love it.

If you purchase a rifle don't skimp on the scope. The rifle you buy is only as good as the scope you put on it. I personally like the Leupold.

David,Remember we all cant afford Leupold or Burris ,or some other high end scopes. I myself will not EVER pay anything close to what my rifle cost, to scope it. I like Tasco,they are cheap enough for my budget and I have had several ,still on my guns after 20-30 yrs and with a little care they are still as good as the day I put them on.

[opposum]

David,Remember we all cant afford Leupold or Burris ,or some other high end scopes. I myself will not EVER pay anything close to what my rifle cost, to scope it. I like Tasco,they are cheap enough for my budget and I have had several ,still on my guns after 20-30 yrs and with a little care they are still as good as the day I put them on.

Yes Richard you are correct, some of those scopes are expensive. But if I was to buy one, I'd buy the best I could afford.

[223reload]

I do ,and they work.

[Kip Brandel]

I heard a rumor that Countryheart went out and got a new outfit for deerseason this year.:wink:
He's gonna be a deerslayin machine this fall.
I thought that was for Dove hunting that is why you needed all of them bullets!

[Kip Brandel]

There are also some bullet mfg's that are addressing the problem of tip distortion by making bullets with a plastic tip that are designed to be used in lever actions.
The problem was not tip distortion but the point of the bullet impacting the primer of the round in front of it causing the round to go off. The lever action pointed bullets are more of a rubber tip.

223reload As for the scope, I bought a 25/06 Sendero a week before father day a few years ago. My wife and daughter, knowing nothing about guns or hunting, got me a Bushnell Banner "Dusk till Dawn" 3-9X50. (My wife liked it because she likes the Dusk till Dawn movies, go figure!) Side by side with the Leupold XV-III 3.5-10X40 the banner is clearer and brighter. I know the lens size has to do with light gathering but I could have gotten 2 Bushnell's for the cost of the Leupold and had some money left. I would NEVER have bought the Leupold but I did some work on a guys racecar and he gave me the scope new in the box. I cant wait to get a 6-18X50 or a 6-24X40 Bushnell for my HR223 single shot.

[porboy]

I have used Bushnell for over 30 years and have very little problem with them. I have several Tasco also and they have worked fairly well but I believe that the Bushnell 4x12 and the 3x9 have been the best that I have used and they take a beating riding in pickups, on horses or atv's plus being carried many miles through pretty rough county on my back or in my hands.

[dieselcat]

My First Rifle was 25/06 bought it when I was 18yrs old and have it today at 41.
Remington model 700ADL I would sell it for anything, many deer have fallen to this Caliber and make.
As far as a so called "brush" gun there is "NO" such thing. Its the construction of the bullet not the caliber that will travel straighter through brush... EVERY BULLET CAN BE DEFLECTED by branches or twigs the size of a toothpick!! if brush is that thick do ya really know what your shooting at?? Be Safe, and good luck! 25/06 has great muzzle velocity and energy and can easily be zeroed in at 250 yds
i agree there is no such thing as a brush gun unless you can find a gun that shoots chainsaw rounds,i dont care what gun you shoot if you shoot through brush the bullet is going to exspand before you hit the deer then you have nothing more than a mess.as far as scope the onlything i shoot personally is leupold

[dieselcat]

Gentlemen,If the young man really wants a 30-30 we shouldnt try to sway him to get something else. I know we all have our fav cartridges , But Lets try and help him with the original question. I love my marlin 30-30. I dont hunt with it,WHY? Because it was bought as an open sighted TARGET gun. I hunt deer here in New Mexico with a OLD Rem model 788 in 243. It dont kick ,and I can group 3 shots inside of a nickle at 100 yds ,ALL DAY LONG. and I've yet to shoot but a single deer more than once . Most of my shots have been inside 100 yds . You can get close IF you WANT to .I dont believe in Magnum power for hunting our North American game. I think most hunters are LAZY and LACK in hunting skills required to get close. OK I"M DONE RANTING .:smile2::smile2::smile2:
IMO using a little dink of a 243 is unethical for deer killing.i guess cause just cause i use a 300 win mag that means my hunting skills are shit?no that just means while im dressing my deer you are still chasing yours after shooting it with your pee shooter.bottom line there is no such thing as too dead.i use a magnum because i hunt fields no cause i'm lazy so i can reach out and touch em

[Kip Brandel]

IMO using a little dink of a 243 is unethical for deer killing.i guess cause just cause i use a 300 win mag that means my hunting skills are shit?no that just means while im dressing my deer you are still chasing yours after shooting it with your pee shooter.bottom line there is no such thing as too dead.i use a magnum because i hunt fields no cause i'm lazy so i can reach out and touch em
A 243 and 223 for that matter with correct bullet selection can and do drop deer on the spot. I have seen 7mm, 300 and 338 win mags have deer get away. It is usually do to people going to the store and buying a "MAGNUM" and not knowing how to hunt. When shooting a smaller caliber bullet placement is more of a premium but generally those shooting it are better at shooting. That is why the 250/3000 was thought of as such a great elk cartridge. A 25 caliber 87 grain bullet at 3000 FPS on ELK!!!! They later added a 100 grain bullet to raise the game taking ability.
I will agree that there is no such thing as to dead BUT under 100 yds the 300 win mag will go through a deer with minimal bullet disruption unless you hit one of the larger bones. Even with this the deer stands a higher chance of running because the lack of impact trauma. With that being said the 300 also damages more of the deer around the wound channel due to the impact it has when proper expansion happens. That is why it is NOT recommended as a "Deer" cartridge by the gun and ammunition companies.

[dieselcat]

A 243 and 223 for that matter with correct bullet selection can and do drop deer on the spot. I have seen 7mm, 300 and 338 win mags have deer get away. It is usually do to people going to the store and buying a "MAGNUM" and not knowing how to hunt. When shooting a smaller caliber bullet placement is more of a premium but generally those shooting it are better at shooting. That is why the 250/3000 was thought of as such a great elk cartridge. A 25 caliber 87 grain bullet at 3000 FPS on ELK!!!! They later added a 100 grain bullet to raise the game taking ability.
I will agree that there is no such thing as to dead BUT under 100 yds the 300 win mag will go through a deer with minimal bullet disruption unless you hit one of the larger bones. Even with this the deer stands a higher chance of running because the lack of impact trauma. With that being said the 300 also damages more of the deer around the wound channel due to the impact it has when proper expansion happens. That is why it is NOT recommended as a "Deer" cartridge by the gun and ammunition companies.
i have shot 3 deer at 40-70 yards and they all droped like a rock and bullet still exspanded just fine. entry hole about the size of the bullet and exit hole 4 times the size so i should have said i believe it exspanded just fine due to the entrance and exit holes and THE DEER WENT NOWHERE bottom line it comes down to choosing the right bullet for what your hunting,i myself always reload my own and use the barnes x bullet and have never had a deer even take a step after shooting them,usually drop so fast you wonder if you even hit em

[Kip Brandel]

i have shot 3 deer at 40-70 yards and they all droped like a rock and bullet still exspanded just fine. entry hole about the size of the bullet and exit hole 4 times the size so i should have said i believe it exspanded just fine due to the entrance and exit holes and THE DEER WENT NOWHERE bottom line it comes down to choosing the right bullet for what your hunting,i myself always reload my own and use the barnes x bullet and have never had a deer even take a step after shooting them,usually drop so fast you wonder if you even hit em
Barnes are some GOOD slugs, I wish my Sendero liked them. I put about 300 down range and never did find a load it liked. I agree on bullet selection as a key. Make your same shot with a bonded partition or any other heavy game load and it would have went right through. Hand loading also opens up the 300 as you can load it down for lighter bullets and use the full magnum power for larger game. I still believe they are overkill for a deer though, Elk or bear I would pick the 300 hands down.
Have you ever shot any round balls out of your 300? I Loaded some for a friend, .310 caliber round ball and a pea sized ball of lube in front of a wad of 2 layers of cardboard. (uses 2 layers glued together to make it stay in the neck and hold the lube) They are a BLAST to shoot and work great for small game. He got the gun as a gift and could not afford to shoot it much. I loaded a bunch of the balls and he took squirrels, Rabbits, Coyote and fox with them. I have done some for my 30/06 and 30/30 and they are fun in all of them. You can EASILY find if someone is flinching, just slip one into the magazine!!!

[223reload]

IMO using a little dink of a 243 is unethical for deer killing.i guess cause just cause i use a 300 win mag that means my hunting skills are shit?no that just means while im dressing my deer you are still chasing yours after shooting it with your pee shooter.bottom line there is no such thing as too dead.i use a magnum because i hunt fields no cause i'm lazy so i can reach out and touch em


Shane,I ain't gonna fight or argue with you,If you read my post,I said that I have only had one deer not drop on the spot ,and needed a follow up shot. Not my bad shooting ,but the buck jumped at the shot and I hit it in the hip,trailed 3 miles and recovered it. That is the only one that ever went more than 50 yards after shot. I learned not to hit the shoulder with the 243 it kills good butr you loose everything on the side you shoot em on from bloodshot meat. I will continue to praise my lil guns. I know how and where to shoot with them and I would not be afraid to hunt elk with my 243,its legal here. I would however not try a shot over 100 yds .:cool2:

[Kip Brandel]

Shane,I ain't gonna fight or argue with you,If you read my post,I said that I have only had one deer not drop on the spot ,and needed a follow up shot. Not my bad shooting ,but the buck jumped at the shot and I hit it in the hip,trailed 3 miles and recovered it. That is the only one that ever went more than 50 yards after shot. I learned not to hit the shoulder with the 243 it kills good butr you loose everything on the side you shoot em on from bloodshot meat. I will continue to praise my lil guns. I know how and where to shoot with them and I would not be afraid to hunt elk with my 243,its legal here. I would however not try a shot over 100 yds .:cool2:
I got NO FEAR that you would drop an Elk either. I can tell you for a FACT that a 69gr 223 will stop one. It took it a little while to drop but was down in under 30 seconds. A friend was on a recovery mission when his group walked in on a Bull and cow. The bull was not happy and they had to dispatch it before he killed someone. They shot 4 times. 3 were found in the shoulder and 1 went through the heart.
My brother has been in Afghanistan, Kuwait and has been to Iraq over 200 times and was there this time around 1 week before anyone knew we were going there. He said in all of the combat and other events he has been in during his military service he was NEVER as scared as when that BULL ELK came after them. I have not gotten him to tell me where it happened put I believe it was either in Colorado, California or Ohio. I did see the pictures of them by the Elk and after contacting the authorities and it was checked out it was cooked for the camp.

BUT it still comes down to putting the shot in the right place with a smaller caliber. 4 shots hit there Elk but only 1 killed it. There is no telling how many shots it would have taken before it went down if the heart was not hit. A smaller caliber will work great from someone familiar with there weapon and the game they are after. Likewise a large caliber will not drop one if shot by someone not knowing what they are doing. I JUST watched a hunting show on OLN where a 7mm Mag hit the deer at less than 100yds and they had to trail it and go back in the morning to continue the trail but they did get it.

[opposum]

When shooting wild game no matter what you use you must consider 3 things. Location, Location, Location. You hit the animal in the right spot you are going to kill it.

[dieselcat]

yes i suppose if you hunting in a wooded area or a small field it would be fine,i know several people that use a 243 for deer and it seems nomatter where they hit em they are tracking it. i believe it has a lot to do with weather or not the deer are calm or if they are for whatever reason nervous.my brother uses a 270 and most of the deer he has shot go 75-100 yards and the heart is gone when we dress em it's just like jello.i my self use the 300 win mag because i hunt fields i have shots anywhere from 50yds to 375yds my average shot is prolly between 125-200yds that is why i chose the cannon other than that i just like big guns.

[Kip Brandel]

yes i suppose if you hunting in a wooded area or a small field it would be fine,i know several people that use a 243 for deer and it seems nomatter where they hit em they are tracking it. i believe it has a lot to do with weather or not the deer are calm or if they are for whatever reason nervous.my brother uses a 270 and most of the deer he has shot go 75-100 yards and the heart is gone when we dress em it's just like jello.i my self use the 300 win mag because i hunt fields i have shots anywhere from 50yds to 375yds my average shot is prolly between 125-200yds that is why i chose the cannon other than that i just like big guns.
I saw a guy hit one with a 35 Wheelen (A 30/06 necked up to 35 caliber) but it started to bolt when he pulled the trigger. The bullet entered the RR hind quarter and hit the bone and excited, hit the belly and eviscerated the deer. That deer ran about 200yds and ran straight into a tree. There was almost NO blood left in the body and Stevie Wonder could have trailed it. Most of it's internals were on the ground where the shot hit and the rest were along the blood trail.
The only explanation in the WHOLE WORLD for it was the adrenaline hit before the bullet did.

[223reload]

yes i suppose if you hunting in a wooded area or a small field it would be fine,i know several people that use a 243 for deer and it seems nomatter where they hit em they are tracking it. i believe it has a lot to do with weather or not the deer are calm or if they are for whatever reason nervous.my brother uses a 270 and most of the deer he has shot go 75-100 yards and the heart is gone when we dress em it's just like jello.i my self use the 300 win mag because i hunt fields i have shots anywhere from 50yds to 375yds my average shot is prolly between 125-200yds that is why i chose the cannon other than that i just like big guns.


Shane,I've killed many Mule deer between 150 and 250 yds with my 243,All were one shot drops. The one I had the bad hit on was a mere 70 yds away. The bullet shattered the pelvis ,and left nearly no blood trail,in fact I thought I had missed . But my 17 yr old son noticed a drag mark in the dirt,we followed and I saw TINY specks of blood. any way point made for both of us. IS No caliber will do the job if THE SHOOTER dont do his. And by the way,we have no wooded areas here where I live ,Just wide open spaces.

[RiverratSC]

I have seen guys hit deer with a wide varity of calibers from .223 to .300 Rem. Ultra Mag. Several hunt with not but .243 and kill more than the guys using a .300 Win. Mag. Shoot placement is the key.

For me personally I use a .30-06 because I have such a great area to hunt. I can see more than 900 yards on one side and 300 yards on the other side. I use Nikon Scopes because I can afford them and they are very clear. The main thing to remember is to get what makes you comfortable and not what everybody wants you to use.

Oh I have a 30/30 but its not working quiet right, it has some feed issuses.

[peewee williams]

The following is from my 50+ years of experience hunting and shooting.Most of it in the swamps and river bottoms of the South East.I know little of the ways and methods of the rest of the world other than second hand.

The only dislike that I had for my 7 mm Rem Mag and 300 Weatherby mag bores was the excessive lost of meat,often to exploding guts being driven into what meat remained.Do not get me wrong.Smaller rounds loaded to high speed with many bullets will do the same.The choice of bullet and powder is everything to prevent such in hand loading.I do not know about many of the "store bought" rounds.The old Remington .222 will shoot bullets that will explode a varmint and also bullets that will stay together and kill a deer.I have hand loaded and used both.With the right bullet,I have actually eaten the bullet hole as the surrounding meat was not destroyed.

Let us face it folks.Farmers who butchered at home used the .22 rim fire to kill stock often exceeding 2000 lbs. on a regular and normal bases.Yes,normally a steer was 1200 lbs.or less,but old steers were often up to and over a ton.Such were bred to this size for the logging of the swamps to huge timber in the northern forrest.They were butchered when old and useless.The meat was often canned in pressure cookers which preserved and tenderized it.My grandmother canned old tough cattle this way in jars and used it in many ways.Also my "Logging Camp Cook" mother in law from East Tennessee"."Fed it to many a logger"."They bragged on my cooking" were her comments.

With many of the old slow heavy rounds you could really eat right up to the bullet hole.NO round can or will kill deader than DEAD!The one you can handle and can kill a Deer with is the best,and is your best round as long as it is legal.I would rather see a Georgia Deer hunter legally hunting with a .22 Hornet that they can place at will than any of the magnums that they cannot.They will certainly kill more Deer humanely and destroy less meat.

As for fit.I am short.My one custom rifle was built 1 inch shorter than my measurements.This was to allow for cold weather clothing.A slip on pad was bought to use in warm weather.I have never needed it as 1 " short is easy to shoot well.1 inch too long is not!

I believe in fit.More so in "shot" shotguns than rifles,as very few rifle shots are "wing shots".You usually have time to crawl around for a instant to shoot the rifle or slug gun.I mentioned shotguns as they are widely used in Southern thickets for Deer.My first deer at 13 with a shotgun was at a Deer 4 feet in mid air as it jumped a 5 foot clear space across a fire break.These distances were measured by awed adults.If this ain't sport,I do not know what is.This is not a unusual shot for Dog hunting in our Southern Swamps.Only hunting with Beagles and Rabbits trained,prepared and gave a kid the skill needed for such.

I have a old savage bolt action 30-30 without a "Butt plate or Pad".It fits great and shoots well without one.Installing one would make it too long for me.

Many modern Bolt actions are more accurate than some lever actions.Many were not.I once had quite a collection of rifles.Most models that I had were accurate because I had bought,tried and sold many such to get a very accurate one.Some,well over a dozen to get "the one" I wanted.Such was legal and common back then.Back in my start,kids could earn a .22 by selling magazines.They could buy guns and shells.Anti tank guns,artillery and such could be ordered out of magazines such as Field and Stream.I have no way of knowing how many guns I bought,owned,sold,gave away,or was given in my lifetime.No records were required and no one that I knew thought of such.Neither could the owner of your local hardware store which sold guns.

Every gun that you buy is different.You can buy several just alike and they will shoot different and normally like different loads.You are very lucky if you get a very accurate rifle when you buy a new gun.

I believe that most Deer are taken with guns with around a 3" or more grouping at 100 yards.This has been what I have seen.This is better than most Deer hunters with a scope are capable of averaging and better than all but the best that I have seen with open sights.

And yes.I do not believe all of the claims that I read.Why should I believe that the shooters on line are far better than many of the competitors and award holders?I also do not believe targets unless I see them or that I personally know that the shooter is capable of such.Everyone has their best shots.No one has ever routinely and consistently shot even close to their very best.I can honestly say that 99.99% of the folks that I have ever heard brag about their shooting could not duplicate their brag with me watching.

You do not have to be a "sniper" to kill a Deer.You just have to be able to do the job under your conditions.This is why old wore out guns that group about 6 inches or more at one hundred yards have been used to take their limit on Deer for year after year with generation after generation using them.The ability to be still and quiet while insects are eating you alive is just as important as your shooting in the early Southern season.Some folk are about as quiet in the woods as the Boston Fire dept.is going to a fire.Yet they can never figure out why they see no Deer.There is no rifle made that will help such folk.

Get the best you can with what you can afford.The cheap Chinese SKS with open sights has taken many Deer every sense they have been sold as has every cheap surplus rifle.Poor folk make do with what they can have and can afford.Ain't that what we all do?I have seen a hunter with a very expensive English made double rifle in the mountains of New England.The owner assured us sailors that "this rifle can bring down any game on the face of the Earth".I believed him and still do.I did notice that he was going home without a Deer while some folk with well worn old military surplus rifles had theirs!

Only you can make it a Deer rifle.Money cannot.No rifle can ever be better than the man pulling the trigger.I am living proof of that.I have been fortunate enough to have a few folk with some very accurate rifles allow me to shoot them.I have owned one.All shot better with better shots than I pulling the trigger.Yea,I wish!!!

And for one thing that I believe is very important.Buy a gun that you can afford to shoot!A BB gun and a .22 rim fire are great for keeping and honing your shooting skills.A BB gun range can be made most anyplace.How often can you afford to shoot your center fire and how often can you go to a place to shoot it?How about a BB gun or .22? Think about it.You can even practice wing shooting with a BB gun to help your shotgun skills.No,you will not replace all of the practice needed with your hunting weapons,but you can sure save money,get better much cheaper and have a lot of affordable fun.Little boys and girls to old men and women can enjoy a BB gun.I have for the 58 years since I shot my first one!I most likely could have sunk the Bismark just with the weight of the BBs that I have shot in that time.I have also eaten quite a few meals killed with one.I also owned a assortment of cheap .177 & .22 pellet rifles.Great!

I love you Brothers and Sisters.peewee

[kat in the hat]

I recently learned that in Mo., an air rifle can be used to hunt deer as long as it is .40 or bigger, and is charged with an external air source like an air compressor, or a large co2 can. 'Coarse these rifles probably cost more than an average deer rifle, but it would still be interesting to kill a deer with an air gun! :cool2:

[Kip Brandel]

I recently learned that in Mo., an air rifle can be used to hunt deer as long as it is .40 or bigger, and is charged with an external air source like an air compressor, or a large co2 can. 'Coarse these rifles probably cost more than an average deer rifle, but it would still be interesting to kill a deer with an air gun! :cool2:
RWS held a hunt in Green Swamp in Florida not to far from where I lived. They took several hogs with a 9mm pellet gun. We went there to do some scouting and it was closed for them. We did get to look at the guns and ammo though. The Pellets looked like a modified buffalo bullet.
They were supposed to be testing the market to put it into production but I have never heard anything else about it.