Bowfishing for Catfish - Public Hearings

[TxCatfishGuide]

Well if you have not heard the TPW Commission has sent the Bowfishing for Catfish Proposal through the commission and it will go for public hearing.

This proposal has reached a stage that it should have never reached and angler turnout in opposition of this proposal at the public hearings is essential. It is very important that the anglers of Texas that oppose this proposal get to these public hearings and be heard.

Again, if we open the doors to bow fishing for game fish, chances are it will not stop with the catfish and will continue on to other species. We need to show up and be vocal.

Inland fisheries staff has admitted that they have no accurate way to sample catfish populations to know if the populations exist to support bowfishing and Phil Durocher of Texas Parks and Wildlife has stated that this is not the direction that TPW wants to be heading with the catfishing in the state, so they OPPOSE the bowfishing.

A complete listing of locations for public hearing is available at this link:

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/business/feedback/meetings/statewide_hearings/

The bowfisherman are planning on being there, so you need to be there and make your voices heard to discourage TPW from taking a step in the wrong direction.

[T-Bone]

I'm gonna try to make the Ft. Worth meeting on the 22nd.
I sure thought this would die with all the letter writing that WE have done.

[warcraft1975]

i think bow fishiing for anything iswroung, no sense in just killing it to kill it

[Sully]

TxCatfishGuide

Why is it that you think that catfish in public waters should only be pursued by rod and reel tackle ? What difference does it make if a limit of catfish is taken by rod and reel or jugs or trot lines OR BOWFISHING equipment ?

To say your way of fishing is the only acceptable way is not only condescending but extremely petty ! I don't know if you have stopped and took a good look around the political landscape of your great country but to clue you in bowfishermen are not your enemy and pose no threat to anyone open minded and not against bowfishing for their own selfish reasons. If you want to get fellow fishermen together to protest another group I would suggest a anti PETA rally { the real enemy of the sportsmen }



i think bow fishiing for anything iswroung, no sense in just killing it to kill it


warcraft1975

That has to be about the most uninformed statements I've heard in some time ! To assume that all bowfishermen " just kill to kill " is as stupid as saying that ALL rod & reel catfishermen have AIDS. Your stereotyping and condescension is telling. If you have never eaten any fish you have caught you still would not have the moral right to make such a statement. Frankly warcraft1975 your post sounds like something that a PETA member would say!

I hope that ya'll will rethink your stance on this issue and embrace fellow sportsmen and not drive another wedge in an already divided community.


Sully

[Thomas P. Conley]

I try to make the Lampasses meeting on 3/1 because I feel catfish should be a game fish insead of a trash fish.

[Thomas P. Conley]

I'll also try to make the Temple meeting on 2/22 for this is a invasion of the gread sport of catfishing and should be dealt with accordingly.

[Desperado]

Very well put Sully!!

[Thomas P. Conley]

Does anyone have a written statement or petition which can be handed in at these meetings? I would like something to hand in for proof of the catfishing and the sport of catfishing.

[Thomas P. Conley]

Well Sully I've thought about Bow Fishing for Catfishing and have to say that Catfish and the sport of catfishing is a valued sportfish and should not be considered a rough fish, but I would like to put this subject up for debate to the members of BOC who reside in Texas.

[Sully]

Mr. Conley

Can you explain what inpact you think that making a limited harvest of catfish with bowfishing tackle ( just like the limited harvest of catfish with rod and reel ) will have on the other tackle type catfishing ?

[Thomas P. Conley]

I'm putting a debate on for or against bow fishing for catfish and am looking for your in-put into this subject. Let's not get heated but be responsible in this debate.

[Sully]

but I would like to put this subject up for debate to the members of BOC who reside in Texas

Mr Conley

When the state of Texas stops issuing nonresident fishing licences you will have a valid piont !

[warcraft1975]

in responce.....if you put an arrow in it its not a far strecth of the imagintion that it has died or will be dead soon enougth.and i dont think just killing some just to kill it is even close to being sportsman like, if your going to eat it thats one , but i am sure many dont so dont tell me i dont have a right to my opion

[Sully]

warcraft1975

I never said that you did not have a right to your opinion , just that your opinion was wrong !

I guess you eat your fish alive

[Thomas P. Conley]

I for one am Against Bow Fishing for Catfish as stated in another post for I feel that Catfish are a valued sport fish and should not be classified as a rough fish such as Gar, Buffalo or Carp. Why one of the first fish I ever caught was a Catfish on rod and reel at the wee age of 7 or 8 and in doing so brought such enjoyment to me that I have followed for the past 50+ years as a Cat fisherman.

[flathunter]

Alot of people release there catfish, pretty hard to do that with an arrow in them....Please it should not be called bowfishing, but maybe bowhunting for fish.

[warcraft1975]

no i eat plenty of fish sir,but to say i have a right to my opion but its wroung,is kinda an a$$ backwards stament dont ya think?i have a right to it weather you think its right or not.and i dont think bow fishing is even close to being sportman like,what about all the other fish its legal to bow fish for? carp gar? do ya think people really eat them? i dought it. just like the gator gar down south its leagal to bow fish it but why? i think it should have a chance to be returned to the water unharmed for future genarations to enjoy, and not have somone with a bow a the small man syndrome kill it just to have a pic of it and show it off,so i hope they bann it all together so there stomp your feet and say badwards because i dont care if you dont like,bowfishing is as about as sportsman like as snagging(it isnt)

[warcraft1975]

i agree with the above post. i dont think it should be leagal just because you cant return the fish if you dont want it

[Thomas P. Conley]

Well here in Texas we take Cat fishing very seriously and if this issue is allowed it is one more nail hammered into the lid of this fine fish which much of the nation does not consider a game fish and thus pays little attention to.
I for one feel it is a money making scheme by the bow industry and outfitters of bow fishing to promote more sale's I feel they care very little for this great fish and they wish to turn Catfish into a rough fish. Cat fishing has a heritage and following that spans generations as a fish to be prized after for both sport and eating.

[Sully]

warcraft1975


I think that your on the wrong site www.PETA.com (http://www.PETA.com) has many like minded people to the way you think. KILLING is wrong ! No matter what KILLING is wrong ! I'm not going to answer your questions or debate KILLING is wrong !

[warcraft1975]

not a sportfish? is it that way on texas? in kansas they are sport fish and is illeagal as aget out to bow fish for them

[Sully]

Mr.Conley

I understand your passion for the sport , Sorry you can't seen to see ours.

There is no grand scheme by the Archery industry , simply bowfishers wanting the privlage that you enjoy.

I also understand your concern for the catfish however shooting catfish with bowfishing equipment is not a new thing. It is legal in OK , LA , AL , NE, AR, just to name a few states. NONE of which have EVER had any problem with this.

However if you have any differing info I would like to see it !

[warcraft1975]

no i think killing just to kill something is wroung get it right sully, maybe you should find another website with other like minded people as well, i know i am getting tired of your rude comments maybe i should just turn you in to boc

[Sully]

warcraft1975

I also think that killing for killing sake is wrong , never said I thought it was right , However I do have a problem with people like yourself that accuse an entire group of sportsmen when you obvisously know nothing about bowfishing but still slander.

Sorry you think that my comments are rude but the truth be known I think that you are unable to disbute the truth and debate the facts. Please feel free to turn me into boc ( who ever that is ) I will stand by every comment I have posted here.

[stickthrower]

I've been hunting 45+ years and I have found more gut shot deer and elk with arrows that any other method. Sporting, I disagree very strongly since I think any/all wildlife deserve a quick kill, not a lingering death due to some moron thinking his is Tonto. By the way I'm a Native American, so I can say that with no descrimination!:mad: If it can be a quick kill, ok, otherwise stop suffering of wildlife so someone can pound their chest! By the way I am an avid hunter, fisherman, hater of PETA. So say what you will. Also I bow hunt as well as muzzleload, haven't used modern firearms in years. My gripe is chest pounders who can buy a bow, and shoot at anything moving just for bragging rights. I have met more of the morons than responsible bow hunters.

Frank

[stickthrower]

I've been hunting 45+ years and I have found more gut shot deer and elk with arrows that any other method. Sporting, I disagree very strongly since I think any/all wildlife deserve a quick kill, not a lingering death due to some moron thinking his is Tonto. By the way I'm a Native American, so I can say that with no descrimination!:mad: If it can be a quick kill, ok, otherwise stop suffering of wildlife so someone can pound their chest! By the way I am an avid hunter, fisherman, hater of PETA. So say what you will. Also I bow hunt as well as muzzleload, haven't used modern firearms in years. My gripe is chest pounders who can buy a bow, and shoot at anything moving just for bragging rights. I have met more of the morons than responsible bow hunters.

Frank

sorry about losing my temper, but it hit a raw nerve!:o

Frank

[RobertP]

I would like to chime in too, though yall probably wont agree with it since this is a catfishing site. I am a bowfisherman. I also love to eat catfish just as much as anyone else. While I am out shooting gar and carp or tilapia (even better fish to eat!) it would be nice to take a couple catfish home for the frier. That is all we are asking for, just the chance to take a few. I would be happy if they allow us three per day and it had to be over say 20". It is still good eating. What is wrong with this? Do you throw back all your catfish or do you take some home to eat? Why can I not shoot a few catfish to take home and eat? Is it the method? Killing for the sake of killing? No for the sake of eating! Is it the fact that you think I cannot determine between a 10" catfish and a 20" catfish before shooting? Hunters do this every deer season. Flounder giggers do this all the time.

I will be at my local meeting too just to show my support for this great idea!

[stickthrower]

I guess I better back up and explain myself. I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH BOWHUNTING IN ITSELF, just most of the morons I have met. Maybe I have met to many of the wrong kind. Beside's how do you catch and release a fish that has been shot if it is to "small"? Even with polaroid glasses you still have a magnafication problem. Trust me I am not anti-hunting by any means. Most of my meat is wild game & fish. By the way I do CPR most fish I catch. But I sure don't have a problem with anyone keeping fish to eat!

Just the aggressive tone & attitude of the above set me off. If I offended anyone I appoligize deeply! That's the best thing about this site is we can agree to disagree without getting serious!

Sorry:o
Frank

[RobertP]

I bowfish almost exclusively at night under lights hooked up to the boat. This way we see more gar and carp. We really do not see many catfish and most of the waters of Texas are rather muddy and green so fishing in water deeper than a couple feet gets real tough. Stickthrower and anyone else interested you have an open invitation to go with me one evening just to see what we see. I usually fish Livingston, Conroe, and Gibbons Creek.

As far as small catfish, well, fine me. That is what Game Wardens do to anyone who keeps an illegal fish. I for one wont chance it. Unless I am sure it is legal, I am not shooting. Again we are not asking for anything special, just wanting to be able to take a few of the same fish you chase...just in a different way.

[stickthrower]

Like I said above, If I offended anyone I'm sorry. When I get back to Palo Pinto county I will contact you RobertP and take you up on it. We all have opinions & each is valid.

MAYBE I SHOULD JUST HAVE STAYED OFF THIS THREAD, I TRIED BUT OH WELL. SOMETIMES TEMPER JUST GETS IN THE WAY.

Frank

[Sully]

stickthrower

It's

[stickthrower]

stickthrower

It's


Say what? Don't quite get your message if one was intended.

[Sully]

stickthrower

It's true that in every large group of people there is always some jerks and low rents , it's a sad fact of life however laws and regs should not be made because someone slob is going to break them ! If that was the case none of us could use our cars.

The problem that i have with warcraft1975's post is he stereotyped all bowfishermen ( in a bad light ) and that is no more fair then bowfishermen stereotyping all catfishermen.

[RobertP]

No problems Stickthrower. I am in Montgomery Co and have no idea where Palo Pinto is located. :)

Oh and I cant PM you back until I get more posts. :crying:

[stickthrower]

stickthrower

It's true that in every large group of people there is always some jerks and low rents , it's a sad fact of life however laws and regs should not be made because someone slob is going to break them ! If that was the case none of us could use our cars.

The problem that i have with warcraft1975's post is he stereotyped all bowfishermen ( in a bad light ) and that is no more fair then bowfishermen stereotyping all catfishermen.

Enough said & I think I will refrain from the thread from now on! Like I've said in other posts I am not against any particular form of hunting/fishing as I believe we all need to stick together to fight the anti's, Lord knows there are enough of them out there that we don't need infighting!
Frank

[sbursik]

I was contacted by the Tyler Morning Telegraph about this topic. Here is his email and my response:

outdoor wrote:

Scott,


I am working on a story about the TPWD proposal on bow fishing for catfish and was wondering if you have heard much comment from catfish anglers. do they plan to organize any type of comment?

is there any way you think this could work, say more restrictive limit or a restricted season?

also, the place i am having the most problem is allowing trotlines, but not bow fishermen. do you see a difference?

thanks,

steve knight
outdoor writer
tyler morning telegraph




Steve,

Since you emailed me from the Catfishangler.com site I can tell you that there is a small movement from catfish anglers. I am trying to unite as many people as I can and I know that the topic is being discussed on catfish1.com, catfishangler.com and others.

>From my experience there is no way that they (TPWD) has any idea what the populations of large catfish are in the lakes and how this will affect the total population. I can tell you that the majority of large fish I have seen come from very shallow water where they are accessible to bow "fisherman". I have seen fish over 40 pounds in less than 2 feet of water cursing the shallows. These are the fish that are going to be targeted. Unfortunately those are the older breeders that we need to protect. The large fish don't even taste good at that size so more than likely they will be discarded and wasted. Most of the time you will never see smaller fish where they would be in reach of a bow.

If a trotline is ran correctly and often enough, the larger fish can be released. You can't release a fish shot with a bow...period.

Bottom line is, until they can get a better idea of how this will effect the population of breeding fish they shouldn't make the decision. If this discussion was about bass it wouldn't even be considered. Why should this game fish be any different?

Scott

[Ted Nugent]

I'm(Bob) Not For It Myself, I Don't Bowfish But Do Find It Interesting....I Know It's Big At Fairfield Lake With Tilapia.

I Agree With Baitfish On "law prohibiting killing just for sport"

[TxCatfishGuide]

I am not trying to start a debate, just trying to keep everyone informed of what is happening in our state.

I am strongly against this proposal for several reasons.

Texas needs to be looking towards tighter regulations not having a free for all Louisiana Game and Fish Department.

TPW does not have sufficient data to support what they are proposing and that is the bottom line.

[birdnest]

With a jaw/mouth a hard as a brick, you can catch/photo/release with hook and line all day long and not do any serious damage to one of these behemouths. Run them through with an arrow and , well, what do they say? stick a fork in em? They're pretty much done!
Some of these cats over 30# or so, are older than half the folks on this web site and I for one think they are way to valuable a resource unless you are going to keep it and eat it. Don't the game wastage laws apply here?
I think using a bow is fine, if you apply the same rules as you do to hunting gators. You must FIRST secure the catch, then subdue it any merciful way you like.
Maybe there ought to be a max size for bow fishing. Say under 30"? Again, anything shot must be retained.
I'd just like to think our kids and grandkids can enjoy this resource and not repeat some of the mistakes we have made with other species just cause they seemed so aboundant at the time.
Just my $.02
Tightlines,
Birdnest

[Thomas P. Conley]

I feel that unless there is a fair way to release a catfish that has been arrowed then it shouldn't be allowed. I release many of my catch and give them the chance to spawn and fight again another day. Most of the fish I do take are 1 to 6 pounds, I feel these are the best eating of the crop. Stickthrower your ancestors have seen the decimation of the native herd of Buffalo when it was said there are so many Buff' they will never be shot out. Yea right! I think the fish should be taken care of by sportsman and not commissions who go by the popular opinion, but by the opinion of the sportsmen who care.

[Sully]

Ok guys let me see if i'm getting the gest of your post : Because The TPWD has no idea what the total population of catfish is they can't change the regulations ? Can anyone tell me what regulation the TPWD has made or changed by useing or knowing the exact population number of any fish ? This is a nonsensical argument.

The large fish don't even taste good at that size so more than likely they will be discarded and wasted. Most of the time you will never see smaller fish where they would be in reach of a bow.


This notion that all fish are wasted by bowfishermen is a FLAT OUT LIE ! Ya'll pretend to know what taste good to another person ???? It is quite obvious you know nothing about bowfishing and the most common size of fish seen.

TPW does not have sufficient data to support what they are proposing and that is the bottom line

Seems to me that you catfishermen don't have the data to oppose this regulation change. Forgive me for saying so but what I am getting from these post is MY FISH and MORE FOR ME !

I feel that unless there is a fair way to release a catfish that has been arrowed then it shouldn't be allowed

WHY does a holder of a valid Texas fishing lic HAVE to release the fish they harvest ? Limits are already set why do you care who the fish are taken ?

Mr. Conley When you show me one instance where fish have been overharvested by bowfishermen I will aggree with your buffalo analogy ! Untill then I will continue to believe that you are over reacting.


I think the fish should be taken care of by sportsman and not commissions who go by the popular opinion, but by the opinion of the sportsmen who care


This is classic liberal dribble " we

[Sully]

Ok guys let me see if i'm getting the gest of your post : Because The TPWD has no idea what the total population of catfish is they can't change the regulations ? Can anyone tell me what regulation the TPWD has made or changed by useing or knowing the exact population number of any fish ? This is a nonsensical argument.

The large fish don't even taste good at that size so more than likely they will be discarded and wasted. Most of the time you will never see smaller fish where they would be in reach of a bow.


This notion that all fish are wasted by bowfishermen is a FLAT OUT LIE ! Ya'll pretend to know what taste good to another person ???? It is quite obvious you know nothing about bowfishing and the most common size of fish seen.

TPW does not have sufficient data to support what they are proposing and that is the bottom line

Seems to me that you catfishermen don't have the data to oppose this regulation change. Forgive me for saying so but what I am getting from these post is MY FISH and MORE FOR ME !

I feel that unless there is a fair way to release a catfish that has been arrowed then it shouldn't be allowed

WHY does a holder of a valid Texas fishing lic HAVE to release the fish they harvest ? Limits are already set why do you care who the fish are taken ?

Mr. Conley When you show me one instance where fish have been overharvested by bowfishermen I will aggree with your buffalo analogy ! Untill then I will continue to believe that you are over reacting.


I think the fish should be taken care of by sportsman and not commissions who go by the popular opinion, but by the opinion of the sportsmen who care


This is classic liberal dribble " WE CARE MORE SO PUT US INCHARGE "
Please post you CARE -O- METER results as I would love to see how this is measured

[archerforkids]

Gentlemen. I've been chasing fish with a bow since the mid 70s. I've been from Buchanan to Toledo Bend. I can say with God looking over my shoulder I've seen more abandoned trotlines than I have actual catfish.Lets not be the "pot calling the kettle black" here by putting us all in a category that fits your needs on this issue. And stickthrower, my hat is off to your opinion on "wannabe" bow hunters. I have coached archers for a while now, and I stress to the rookies their moral responsabilities when they head to the woods.Lets join forces on a more worthy cause. oh. I do know where Palo Pinto county is stickthrower.Has to be Gods showcase for hunting. Beautiful country.

[stickthrower]

Gentlemen. I've been chasing fish with a bow since the mid 70s. I've been from Buchanan to Toledo Bend. I can say with God looking over my shoulder I've seen more abandoned trotlines than I have actual catfish.Lets not be the "pot calling the kettle black" here by putting us all in a category that fits your needs on this issue. And stickthrower, my hat is off to your opinion on "wannabe" bow hunters. I have coached archers for a while now, and I stress to the rookies their moral responsabilities when they head to the woods.Lets join forces on a more worthy cause. oh. I do know where Palo Pinto county is stickthrower.Has to be Gods showcase for hunting. Beautiful country.

I guess that was what I was trying to say in a round-a-bout way, being responsible! Today it seems like society doesn't believe in being responsible for our own actions anymore. And your right, Palo Pinto County is truely God's country! I've lived all over the USA from east to west & north to south, in deserts, mountains, and on the coast. I still like Possum Kingdom Lake area the best!:)

And I totally agree about everyone joining forces, not fighting amongst ourselves! That is how the bunny huggers get through bad laws, etc. Divide us, then beat us at the polls. Look how many states have outlawed trapping because we as hunters divided on the issue. Just because I don't like a method doesn't mean I want to outlaw it. We have more than enough laws as it is. I just want people to be held responsible for their actions & kills. Not wounding animals & leaving them to die and waste the resources. Just my .02 for what it is worth.

Frank

[DeerHunter01]

Gentelmen: Let me first post a couple of rules on here before you go any further.

# 1.

13. Communication Styles


Even when the same language is used, people interpret information differently. Therefore, the message sent is not always the message received. Differences in communication styles can make the sender of the message appear to be pushy, rude, aggressive, passive, etc. Factors involved in this are volume and rapidity of typed speech, tone of the post, and emphasis on key words.

People make judgments about others based on the kinds of expressions they use because of the region of country from which they come. Members need to understand that certain terms are unique to individuals from certain regions, and are normal practice for the area.

The fact that people have different experiences accounts for many of the problems that occur when they try to interact cross-culturally. Cultural, racial, and gender differences affect our experiences. Our experiences directly relate to our ability to communicate. For example, if you are from a broken family, the word "family" might have a different meaning or emotional charge for you than for someone from a different family situation.

Your understanding and careful posting prevents many issues that arise from perceived understanding. Always double check your post, and don’t make remarks, which can be construed as inciting. They are easily recognizable, and only cause long term problems between members of the community.

If you don’t personally like a certain member, keep it to yourself, and don’t respond to messages generated from that member.



#2.

15. Sources of Conflict

Trying to identify or determine the cause of conflict is sometimes difficult to analyze. Heightened emotions or bad feelings may cloud the real cause of any conflict and detract from examining the facts.

The cause of conflict can also have multiple factors which makes it difficult to isolate just one cause. The following is a list of common causes in conflict situations normally adjudicated on the BOC.

a. Different values and beliefs.

b. Role pressure or clarification.

c. Perception differences.

d. Diverse goals or objectives.

e. Race, ethnicity, or gender differences.

f. Personality clash or conflict.

g. Competition for limited resources.

h. Disagreement on how things should be done.

i. Personal interest.

j. Tension and stress


All conflict given the right opportunity and motivation can be resolved, but not always to the satisfaction of all parties. The effect of disagreement and the methods for resolution depend on how conflict is managed by the member(s) and the BOC Staff.


Please try and work these issues out , this is a good topic as long as it does not go any further south then it has now.

Thank You
BOC Staff
DeerHunter01

[sbursik]

I think it all boils down to a couple of facts.....

1. Knowledge is power
2. Be responsible in what you do no matter what it is. Just because you CAN do it doesn't mean you SHOULD do it
3. Look before you leap

The thing about any topic is that there are usually 2 sides and people feel passionate about the side they are on. Being able to discuss it like adults is paramount so that both sides are represented equally. I suggest that if you feel one way or the other about this topic do what I am going to do....show up for the public discussion armed with the knowledge and questions you have and make a difference. Don't just sit back and hope others represent your view.

Scott

[TeamWhiskers]

Thanks DeerHunter, it is time we get back on track..

It sounds to me that the Inland fisheries staff needs to be educated as there is a way to take samples and statistics on catfish populations. They need to be informed about taking data from the local tournaments through out the state of Texas and other states.

The bottom line here is that we need to preserve our Breeding and Trophy populations. Various States across our Nation are now recognizing that Catfishing is a Sport. They are slowly enacting legislation for size and number limits to preserve these Sport fish. For those who do not know, Catfishing has been a Sport since Spring of 2003 when a few Pros got together and announced this on a few of our Team sites and also here in BOC for those who remember the column that I used to write. Many of us Pros and others have worked endless hours for the Sport just to get it where it is today. Pressure has been put on the fish alone due to the public awareness as many of us have seen the larger populations decrease in various areas. This is why some of us came up with the concept of CPR.

Tennessee is the battle ground for the size limits along with enacting legislation for limiting commercial netting of these fish. Texas now is the battle ground for this bow fishing of our Sport fish. These are crucial areas that will set the standards for the rest of the states. We have already had to deal with other states that have allowed hand fishing or hogging. The argument there was pretty much the same as with Bow Fishing. Not only is the catfish a Sport fish, but also given the type of methods used, several experienced Bow hunters could quickly wipe out the Trophy populations rather easily. We now have 3D fish finders that can easily pinpoint both size and weights of these fish as experienced fishermen know how to use these.

It is not a matter of a heated debate over this and that will accomplish nothing. It is a matter of preserving our larger populations of these Sport fish for future generations to enjoy what we have today. Not only do we still need to educate the general public and the public officials even more about the Sport fish, but also methods in catching and releasing them.

Vince Copple
TeamWhiskers

[gadzooks]

Bowfishing shoots to hell and back the concept of size limits for catfish. Take an 11 1/2 inch channel cat, illegal in most Texas waters to have in your possession, but on a hook and line, you have a good chance of returning it to the water unharmed. An arrow, though, is certain death.

[Sully]

Gentlemen

I have asked MANY questions on this board and I don't think more then one has been answered only monologues of how bowfishermen stink and bowfishing for catfish will be the end of the world SO let me try this one more time.

Catfish are allowed to be taken by bowfishermen in NE ,AR, LA , AL , OK and SC. If bowfishing for catfish will truly effect the catfish population please show the data from these states where it has happened !

If there has never been any adverse effect from bowfishing on catfish I can only assume that catfishermens denial for bowfishermens rights to take LIMITED amounts of catfish from public waters are only for selfish reasons . Sorry guys but the other group that I can think of that exist to take rights away from sportsmen are all Anti hunting and fishing groups like PETA.

ARE YOU SURE YOUR ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THIS ARGUMENT ?

[sbursik]

I don't see that we are taking anything away. There isn't a law in place now that allows it. Just because there are groups that oppose hunting doesn't mean that we should push to allow it for everything we can.

I think the main issue isn't being selfish. I think that until data supporting one side vs. the other is produced, we need to wait an not make a decision. Are there numbers that back up the fact that this will or will not effect the population? If there are I havent seen it. I have heard that catfish are too hard to study to get this information. I dont know how much truth there is to that.

I just think that making ANY decision without the data to back it up is a mistake. We are on the edge of a world record fishery and I would hate to see anything mess that up.

Scott

[Sully]

OK Scott

IF you truly need to see population data and that is the most important thing , that the fishery is that fragile are YOU and other rod and reel catfishermen willing to stop fishing for catfish untill these results come in ? Because you are saying that you don't know if ANY harvest will effect the population . CORRECT !!!

[sbursik]

No.....I catch and release the large fish and only keep the smaller eaters. You cannot catch and release the big fish when you stick them with a bow. The big fish are the breeders.

We will have to agree to disagree here. I don't see what's wrong with making an informed decision?

I have said what I need to here and think the productiveness of this thread has run its course. I will save my "talk" for the public hearing.

Scott

[Sully]

Scott

I agree wholeheartedly in making informed decisions , that is exactly the reason that I have posted on this site. However what you are saying is that YOU are not willing to give up your rights to be studied BUT bowfishermen have to ? Looks like a blatant double standard to me.

As far as catch and release goes the fact that you do this has little to do with the vast majority of catfishermen!

As far as data goes I have given you information on several states that have for YEARS allowed the taking of catfish with bowfishing equipment why are you not researching this info ?

[cowboy20]

Does anyone have links to any studies that have been done on the effects of leaving primarily older fish in a fishery, and targeting only the smaller, immature fish for removal?

BTW, I am a bowfisher, but not wanting to stir up any trouble. I'm just wanting to see you guys point of view.

[cowboy20]

I would agree to bowfishing if there was a law prohibiting killing just for sport

I agree. :thumbsup:

Why one of the first fish I ever caught was a Catfish on rod and reel at the wee age of 7 or 8 and in doing so brought such enjoyment to me that I have followed for the past 50+ years as a Cat fisherman.

Same here until I took up bowfishing (not for 50 years, though....I'm only 29). I do still enjoy conventional fishing from time to time, though. :cool:

[TeamWhiskers]

Catfish is a Sport Fish. It is just that plain and simple. There are plenty of other species that can be shot with a bow and arrow. Go up the Illinois river and take as many of the Flying Carp you all want. I really seriously doubt that bow hunters would go after other Sport fish such as Bass, Walleye, Pike, Crappie, or Trout. There is a certain amount of image and respect Sportsmen have rather if you are a hunter or a fisherman for these types of fish that are in the same category of Sport fish.

[cowboy20]

Catfish is a Sport Fish. It is just that plain and simple. There are plenty of other species that can be shot with a bow and arrow. Go up the Illinois river and take as many of the Flying Carp you all want. I really seriously doubt that bow hunters would go after other Sport fish such as Bass, Walleye, Pike, Crappie, or Trout. There is a certain amount of image and respect Sportsmen have rather if you are a hunter or a fisherman for these types of fish that are in the same category of Sport fish.

That brings up an interesting question that was brought up on the bowfishing forum when we were having this discussion a few months back.

What makes a sportfish a sportfish? What is the proper definition?

[bulldawg]

Just to let you guys know I am a catfisherman as well as a bowfisherman. I bowfish on Clarks Hill Lake in GA and we are allowed to take catfish with a bow since this lake borders SC. I have been bowfishing for 5 years now and I definatly disagree with the people that say all you ever see in the shallows is the big breeding fish cause that is a bunch of crap. About 95% of the fish I see are from the one to 8 pound range. I also disagree with those that say we need to wait for numbers because we dont have any, well maybe you need to stop the keeping of all fish in the state of Texas since you dont know if the population is stable. I assure you guys sportsman need to stick together and help each other, because groups like PETA will stick together and then they will outrule sportsmen like us. I invite anyone that lives near GA and would like to go and see what bowfishing is about to come and bowfish with me any time.

[bulldawg]

Bowfishing shoots to hell and back the concept of size limits for catfish. Take an 11 1/2 inch channel cat, illegal in most Texas waters to have in your possession, but on a hook and line, you have a good chance of returning it to the water unharmed. An arrow, though, is certain death.

I am a bowfisherman and just to let you know we have to see the fish to shoot it and we can tell how big fish are. And for those who oppose because you cant return them to the lake, if we shoot a catfish or any other edible fish then we have no intention of turning it anywhere but into hot grease and Im sure there is a law in Texas that says that you can not waste any animal that can be eaten or game animal which applies to catfish. I dont disagree with rod and reel fishing for catfish I still do it often but I just think that all of us sportsmen need to stick together because if we dont stand together we will all loose our great outdoors to groups like PETA.

[cowboy20]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[bulldawg]

Totally agree. :) :) :)

[RobertP]

Good points all of them. But please remember this. We bowfishermen are simply wanting to take SOME catfish. If TPWD want us to take a daily limit like you then fine. I for one would be very happy if they allowed me to take 5 per day and give me a slot of say 14" to 25". We are not after killing as many catfish as we can. That is what carp are for! No tournament has ever had catfish as a target and never will as long as I can help it. Again we have plenty of carp for that. We simply want to eat a few catfish.

[cowboy20]

Timotha, I can't send a PM until I have 20 posts, but I would like to read the fish studies you have.



:0a31:

[TeamWhiskers]

This is all speculation anyhow until we see the actual written form of the law that goes before congress. Many of us mainly want to protect the Breeders and Trophys just like in any other Sport rather it be hunting or fishing for the various animals or species of fish sought after.
There is no definition specifically stating that the Catfish is a Sport fish. Just a few general ones… a fish important for the sport it affords anglers. A fish prized for the sport involved in catching it. Also called game fish. A type of fish that is prized for the sport it gives the angler in its capture rather than for its value as food. So you make the decision then on how it is interpreted. For that matter, there are a lot of definitions that are still needed for our Sport of Catfishing and Industry for that matter that needs to be addressed in other categories on other threads.
Good luck to all and enjoy our Sport as we have today… See ya on the Water..

[catfishcentral]

Hmmm... There sure is a lot of different threads on this subject the last couple of months. I see a lot of good posts on both sides of the issue but I wanted to say once again "The means by which catfish are taken are not as important as setting limits or in some cases slot limits on catfish" I know there is a lot of people that believe that anyway besides using a rod and reel is unsportman like. Setliners are nothing more than meathunters and could care less about the enviroment. There is some truth to that statement there are bad apples in any sport that can ruin a good thing. I can't tell you how many abandoned trotlines I have found where my jugs have caught them drifting downstream. The amount of fish killed by abandoned trotlines would be probably a hundred times more than if a bowfisherman killed a catfish and didn't eat it. Do I want trotlines petitoned to be removed from the sport of catfishing? Heck no there plenty of responible people that set trotlines all the time and it's the individual not the means that gives a sport a bad rep. Personally if you can consistantly kill catfish with a bow more power to ya because there not as easy as a carp or gar that's at the surface. In fact bowfishing as a sport is not that popular at all and just because you make it legal to kill a catfish by bow doesn't mean that there's going to be a rush of new bowfisherman because now they can be harvested by bow. The fact is limits are much more important that the means by which fish are taken. There are few fish that can be harvested in so many different ways such as a catfish. I love all legal means by which catfish can be taken but I follow my states harvest rates. I think Texas has a limit of 50 catfish per day I believe, I might be mistaken. That in my opinion is WAY too many and if I were trying to keep great catfishing in my state I would be pushing more for lower limits on catfish than bothering with really a handful of people who want to take a catfish with a bow. I hear also "well you can't return a catfish after it has been shot" That is true but lots of people really like to eat catfish and I have a hard time believing that these fish will go to waste. We have a combined limit of 15 blues and channels per day here in Oklahoma and 10 flathead which must be at least 20 inches. Heck you can have up to 267 hooks in the water by all the means you can take catfish here and you can also noodle and bowfish flatheads. All these different ways to harvest catfish and we have some fantastic fishing here in Oklahoma. Why it's because we have reasonable limits placed on them. The means by which catfish are taken is irrelevent. Making a catfish a gamefish in all states and putting limits on them and in some places where we trophy catfish are present places slot limits will just increase the quality and size of catfish.

[derbycitycatman]

I know quite a few bowfisherman and they are the most ecological minded people I know. I really hated to hear someone say that bowfisherman dont use the fish. Most bowfisherman I know are trappers and if they do not eat their fish they turn it into oil for trapping lure. If truth be told of all the dead fish Ive seen on stringers or just thrown on the bank I have yet to see one with an arrow hole in it. Oh and bowfishing is legal in Kentucky.

[roh1961]

I am totally against it mostly for this reason. When catfishing, many anglers, including myself, CPR (catch and release) larger cats and keep some of the smaller cats to eat. When Bowfishing, the targeted fish will be the largest size, and we all know it can't be released after being shot. That will take a heavy toll on large breeder cats and therefore the cat population. There will also be an unfair advantage over large cats that are shot in shallows feeding at night. NO BOWHUNTING FOR CATS

[Leakyboat]

I also bowhunted for years.The majority of bowhunters do it legal,just like the majority of catfishermen abide by the laws.There are always a few who won't follow the rules(Laws).All these guys that say they never see any catfish to shoot,have you never bowfished a river?
My main concern is there is no Catch + Release in bowfishing.
I am against it.
Ernie

[derbycitycatman]

Bowfisherman do not just go and shoot every fish they see. It just doesnt happen like that. If the fish is not eaten it is usually turned into oil for trapping. Sure the temptation is there but if we banned everything tempting than we would have no guns, no cars, no booze, well you get the idea. How many are tempted to drink and drive, yet alcohol and cars are legal. How many people go on shooting sprees yet guns are legal.

As far as not being able to cpr, thats true. So is hunting so I guess you dont hunt. Since you could just kill that squirrell and throw him in the woods no more hunting because someone could do that.

Of all the fish ive seen on stringers dead or thrown onto the ramp or grass and left to die, not one had an arrow hole in it.

[T-Bone]

I really appreciate the last few pages of this thread. It was very heated early on and now some sence of it all is coming together for me. I've waited to post here, cause I was a lil bent by the way this thread started.
I agree "we all need to stand together". I'm not a bowfisherman, so maybe I don't understand it the way some do, I am guilty of stereotyping bowfisherman. I'd like to see us all come together for the better of Catfishing in my home state and yours.

[TxCatfishGuide]

This is a bad deal all the way around and needs to be fought to the bitter end. I am hopeful that our efforts will be successful and this will die on the table like it has in years past but I guess we shall see.

I sure hate to see TPW make another stupid decision that will effect all our CPR promotion over the last 5 years.

This whole deal reaks just as bad as the freshwater stamp deal did, and you see where that got us all.

I will be at the North Texas Meeting on the 22nd and possible some others schedule permitting.

Chad Ferguson

[Sully]

Chad

I have asked you WHY you are so against this rule change , Why you think that it is stupid. I realize that I will most likely not change your mind but would like to hear your argument ! I would think that if you are going to crusade you would not be afraid to debate your views on a open fourm ?

[Sully]

I don't want to stereotype type catfishermen like they have Bowfishermen however I live very close to one of if not the premiere catfishing spots in Missouri ( the tail race waters of Truman dam ) and have spent ALOT of time around catfishermen and I can say with complete confidence I have never personally seen a single catfishermen sit all night on the hard ground to throw back what they catch , matter of fact it is some type of ego thing to place the heads of the catfish they catch on fence post along the road to show off how many big catfish they have caught. That's a FACT around here but you know I don't see this as a big deal BECAUSE when we go and buy a fishing licence the fishing regs say that we can KEEP a amount of the fish we catch SO who am I to be trlling anyone they have to turn back what they catch when I have NEVER heard of ANY place that has EVER been fished out ! BUT I would love to hear any info that differs.

[gadzooks]

Maybe in areas where there is some trapping to be done, some bowfishermen do keep the fish they kill and don't want to eat for oil, but that doesn't happen in the Houston area. I've watched the bowfishermen on Lake Houston shoot fish and throw them on the bank to rot. The problem of bowfishing for cats is not even expert fishermen can really tell the difference between a fish 11" long and one 12" long (the legal limit for channels in Texas) from 25 feet away. Hell, most can't tell you until its withing a few inches. Dead fish float, but don't swim.

[derbycitycatman]

There will always be bad apples in every bunch. As I said earlier Ive seen fisherman do the same by just leaving their catch on the bank or stringer to die. Should we close down fishing because I or others have seen a few be stupid?

[Sully]

Cannibals and useful idiots

Written by John Wasmuth

The following is real, and it’s here. Joe Hunter goes to a cocktail party, nothing fancy, just a holiday gathering in Anytown, USA. A conversation begins with Bob Peta, it goes something like this; “Say Joe, didn’t you go deer hunting this year.” “Sure did Bob.” “Man that’s, uh, great, did you get one?” “Yep, sure did, nice 6 point.” “Uh, wow, hey that’s great. Say listen Joe, yer a true hunter, a ”Real” hunter are you not?” “Yes, I sure am.” “Say, I hear tell of a kinda huntin where people can go and kill animals in fenced in areas. You’ve never done that have you?” “No, no I haven’t.” “Well I wouldn’t call that “real” hunting, would you Joe.” “Well, that’s not the way I hunt.” “I know Joe, but there are people that hunt in fenced areas, I don’t think that’s “Really” hunting, do you Joe.” “Well, uh, I guess not.” “Great, say listen Joe, a bunch of us concerned “Real” hunters are trying to get that done away with, we feel that it is unethical. Will you help us Joe?” “Well sure, because that’s not the way I hunt, and I am a “Real” hunter.” “Say thanks Joe; here is what we need you to do. As a “real” hunter, the big boys in senate and congress will listen to you; they know that any “Real” hunter only hunts the way you do, and that’s the only “Real” hunting there is. So what we need you to do is get out there and get petitions signed, people will sign them because you are a “Real” hunter and know that only your way of hunting is the “Real” way.” So Joe diligently goes after the goal, to ban and outlaw any kind of hunting that Bob suggests is not “Real” hunting. He gathers signatures, petitions courts, makes meetings, he is really cleaning up this “unethical” way of hunting. Hell, he’s got a lot of support. He’s gathering “Real” hunters from all over, and finally, after much hard work, they get a legal way of hunting banned.
“Joe, you did great and we sure appreciate your hard work, but hey, let me tell you what I heard about. There is another kind of hunting “We” think is not right. Do you think you can help us?” “Well, I guess so Bob, I don’t hunt like that, so it’s not “Real” hunting. How can I help?” “Well, here is what we need…….,” and it’s the same story. Odd how Bob seems to keep adding onto the list of what “Real” hunting is, but Joe goes at it hard and heavy, and in the end, he gets that type of legal hunting banned. Bob and his “Friends” are happy. Joe’s a “Real” hunter after all, and these other guy’s, well, they are not, because the way they hunt is different from Joe, and Joe does not like that type of hunting, so what’s the harm in getting rid of it? Joe’s a “Real” hunter you know. Not like those other guys. He even goes to Sportsman’s organizations and recruits from within, it’s easy because there are a lot of “Real” hunters there.
Time passes and more and more legal forms of hunting are banned. Bob and his “friends” are happy with Joe. He’s been a big help. After it’s all just about gone, Bob and his “friends” decide that it is time to get Joe’s way of hunting banned, the final chapter. “Bob, uh, hey buddy, this is Joe. I know I helped you get rid of all those other forms of legal hunting, but now there is a move to get rid of the way I hunt.” “Well Joe, I know. My “friends” and I are spearheading that.” “But Bob, I thought you liked the way I hunt, that it was ok for me to do the type of hunting I do.” “Well Joe, no, any and all types of hunting are bad, the poor defenseless animals never have a chance, and we dislike, actually hate hunters.” “But I thought the way I hunted was “Real” hunting to you.” “Hell Joe, it was all “ Real” hunting, but we at PETA and HSUS Hate you, but thanks for all your help, we really appreciate it.”
You see, what Joe became was a “Cannibal”. A “Useful Idiot” to the anti’s and PETA. They don’t give a rat’s backside how you hunt, what you hunt, or when you hunt. They just want all hunting done away with. They use hunters against hunters to gain support for their “Causes”. If you do not support any and all forms of legal hunting, and decide to pick and chose the ones you like and dislike, and voice any decent about the way someone else legally hunts, you are in fact, a “Cannibal” and a very very “Useful Idiot” for the enemy. There are plants even within the sacred walls of your favorite Sportsman’s organizations. Route them out, expose them, and rid the board of them. Hunting’s future depends upon it.

[Ted Nugent]

I don't want to stereotype type catfishermen like they have Bowfishermen however I live very close to one of if not the premiere catfishing spots in Missouri ( the tail race waters of Truman dam ) and have spent ALOT of time around catfishermen and I can say with complete confidence I have never personally seen a single catfishermen sit all night on the hard ground to throw back what they catch , matter of fact it is some type of ego thing to place the heads of the catfish they catch on fence post along the road to show off how many big catfish they have caught. That's a FACT around here but you know I don't see this as a big deal BECAUSE when we go and buy a fishing licence the fishing regs say that we can KEEP a amount of the fish we catch SO who am I to be trlling anyone they have to turn back what they catch when I have NEVER heard of ANY place that has EVER been fished out ! BUT I would love to hear any info that differs.

I have'nt kept ANY Catfish I've Caught In The Past 3 Years, a Friend I Fish does but I don't......Just A FYI

[Sully]

Thanks Ted Nugent

That is my point exactly ! If the argument is going to be made that Bowfishing for catfish should not be allowed because All bowfishermen can't catch and release then shouldn't that same argument be used if ALL rod and reel guys don't catch and release ?

[roh1961]

Just as an example, I don't see any fishermen asking if they can snag for fur bearing animals. Are there not enough types of fish to bowhunt that are ALREADY legal? Is it legal to duck hunt with bows? Now that would be sporting unless someone got hurt by a loose arrow. Will bowhunters be satisfied with catfish or is this just the beginning?

[roh1961]

Sorry, I just can't buy in to the idea that we are hurting our rights as sportsmen by not adding ANOTHER privilege to a different type of sportsman. Now if I was griping about some privilege they already had and wanted it stopped, it might be different. I appreciate the fact that the fish are managed very well by our wildlife agencies and appreciate the fact that I have a right to fish in already approved manners. I am not fond of the fact that bowhunters get to shoot ANY fish but I'm not going to complain about that. I will stand by my statements about bowhunting for catfish and do NOT want it approved!!!!!!!!!

[T-Bone]

I must agree with that statement Sir.roh1961 just about said what I've wanted to say. It would be different if a law was already in place, but it's NOT. My thing is how will letting Bow fishing Make the Catfishing any better ? A shot fish is a dead fish.
If you Bow guys want to eat some fish, why not just use the legal means we have now ? I see no good coming from letting this thing pass.
I'm not trying to start a debate with anyone, this thread was put up here so folks could say what they think.
Please no rude commits form anyone, as I'm on this board to learn not fight ....

[cowboy20]

My thing is how will letting Bow fishing Make the Catfishing any better ?

Well, for starters it gets more people interested in the fish. At first glance, that may seem to be a negative thing because bowfishermen can't release the fish. However, bowfishermen will not want to see the numbers of those fish dwindle, because let's face it, we want to pursue them too.

Now, the biggest part of the issue seems to be that the CPR catfishermen want more trophy cats to pursue. This would be the same with some bowfishers (but not all). That being the case, bowfishers may actually become allies to help raise money and provide habitats for trophy sized cats.

Case in point, the gator gar grant that the Bowfishing Association of America works on every year. Yes, we pursue alligator gar, but we also want to make sure there will be many of the mammoths left to pursue for posterity. We step up and put money in the coffers, and we assist with research on the gator gar. I personally don't seek out trophy gator gar, but I will do my part in assisting with the gator gar grant as much as possible.

Prior to becoming a bowfisher, I despised gar and really thought them a useless fish. Now that I bowfish, I view them in an entirely different light.

In reality, no sportsman wants to catch or kill his way out of his sport. By getting more people interested in the animal you pursue, you open up more possibilities for allies to help make sure that animal thrives. By being overly possessive of a sport, or a fish, you limit potential resources you could have easily had, if you were willing to work with other groups.

I would be more than willing to work with catfish groups to help improve catfishing in TX for both bowfishers and CPR fishers.

If you Bow guys want to eat some fish, why not just use the legal means we have now ? I see no good coming from letting this thing pass.

Bowfishing is our passion, the same as R&R fishing is your passion. If the shoe was on the other foot, would you really want to give up your R&R fishing for a bow?

We enjoy our sport just as much as you enjoy yours.....just think about what it would be like if you had to give up your R&R everytime you wanted to catch something worth eating.

I think there is a workable compromise for the two groups somewhere, we just have yet to find it.

[Sully]

Just as an example, I don't see any fishermen asking if they can snag for fur bearing animals. Are there not enough types of fish to bowhunt that are ALREADY legal? Is it legal to duck hunt with bows? Now that would be sporting unless someone got hurt by a loose arrow. Will bowhunters be satisfied with catfish or is this just the beginning?

This is interesting thinking Randy however the one big hole I found with your thinking is BOWFISHING is legal the other methods are not !



I appreciate the fact that the fish are managed very well by our wildlife agencies and appreciate the fact that I have a right to fish in already approved manners


One thing all the R&R fishermen need to remember is there was a time that YOUR method was up for approval AND there are people now that if they had their way would take your fishing rights away in a heart beat ! HOW do you feel about those people ? NOW how should bowfishermen fell about you ? :confused:

[gadzooks]

That is my point exactly ! If the argument is going to be made that Bowfishing for catfish should not be allowed because All bowfishermen can't catch and release then shouldn't that same argument be used if ALL rod and reel guys don't catch and release ?


ALL rod and reel guys who are fishing legally do practice catch and release of underlimit size fish. That's something that can't be done by bow hunters. Once pierced by an arrow, that fish is a dead fish. What's the bowhunter going to do with an undersize kill, can't keep it legally, if caught by the warden, there's a fine awaiting. Throw it back dead? Another floating fish no longer available. Granted, some hooked fish that are released die from wounds suffered from the hook or from stress. But, being hit by a bow is a guarantee of sure death.

[Sully]

gadzooks

you can make up all the horror stories you want about what might happen , all I know is that catfish have been legal to bowfish in Toledo Bend for YEARS and the last time I was there , there damn sure wasn't a shortage of the little suckers. The locals I talked to caught lots of big catfish ! How could that be ?????????

[dahoss2002]

I dont have anything against bowfishing in general. I live in Louisiana where the catfish isnt a "gamefish". We allow commercial fishing, noodling, bowfishing, and snagging. None of these methods are acceptable for "gamefish" however. Largemouth Bass, Crappie, etc... I think the majority of Texas Catfisherman want to preserve the status of Catfish in Texas to be "gamefish". I support them 100 %. The fewer asterisks u put into laws, the less confusing it is for everyone.

[warcraft1975]

give it time guys once catfish become a game fish in all states bowfishing for them will be a thing of the past, thank god.i wonder why there not in some states?

[cowboy20]

ALL rod and reel guys who are fishing legally do practice catch and release of underlimit size fish. That's something that can't be done by bow hunters.

Bowfishers can selectively harvest fish, prior to putting any undue stress on them at all. If a fish is close to the right size, but you can't tell, you don't shoot.

It is no different than hunting with antler restrictions. I deer hunt in heavily wooded areas, and most of the time a buck walks out, I have less than 5 seconds to determine if he meets the antler requirements or not. In that 5 seconds, I also have to be ready to shoot so that I can take the shot if he is up to par. I've done it every year for many, many years now, and I have yet to shoot an illegal buck.

As a sportsman, we all have to make decisions as to whether what we're doing is ethical. If I think the shot is iffy, I don't take it. If I catch a fish with R&R and I can't tell if he exactly meets the length requirements, or if he's 1/8 inch too short, do I keep it anyway, or do I throw it back? Is 1/8 of an inch enough to quibble over? If I foul hook a fish, or the hook goes through his eye, or he swallows it and I rip out half of his gills trying to remove the hook.....but the fish doesn't meet the length requirements, what do I do?

[cowboy20]

give it time guys once catfish become a game fish in all states bowfishing for them will be a thing of the past, thank god.i wonder why there not in some states?

In Arkansas it is legal to take 2 catfish per day (except during the spawn) with a bow.

It is also legal to take 2 alligator gar per day with a bow.

Both fish are listed as game fish in the fishing regulations. Simply allowing someone to take a fish by another method doesn't automatically mean that the fish is removed from the game fish list, if that's your concern.

[Sully]

I wondered how long it would take to stop debating the fact and launch into personal attacks.


You say it's so great about bowfishing Toledo Bend. Do you realize there two states governing that lake. It's still illegal if you are doing it on the Texas part. I'm not sure what Louisiana requires about a license to bowfish but do you get one?

Yes Randy I am aware that two states govern the lake ! Are you aware that it is still ONE lake and that after YEARS of bowfishing catfish out of this lake there is NO adverse effect ?

I'm not sure what Louisiana requires about a license to bowfish but do you get one? Is an out of state license valid to bowfish?

Yes of course I always buy the appropriate licence to assume other wise is a foolish and childish as assuming that all bowfishermen are guilty of want & waste.

One last thing, this isa debate over Texas bowfishing and I can understand where surrounding states would be concerned but you are from Missouri so what concern could you have. If you came to Texas would you attempt to get a license. You apparently have a problem abiding by rules.


Randy Ol buddy you are going to have to came to grips with the concept of PUBLIC WATERS , FOR USE BY THE PUBLIC !!!!!!!! That is why all states issue non resident fishing licence. I have no problem at all abiding by the rule and have never been issued a citation for a game and fish violation and to assume other wise when you know nothing about me shows that you are not interested in debating the fact but are here to launch personal attacks and slander.

Are the R&R Catfishermen that want to argue against catfish being bowfished going to keep ignoring the FACTS that there are other states and a lake in your own state that has allowed bowfishing for years without the world coming to an end and NONE of the tragic event predicted by the naysayers

[gadzooks]

Sully, do you own a bowfishing business? Found a wesite by that name. If so, it appears that you may have more than just a bowfisherman's interest in the subject.

[cowboy20]

While it's a fair observation to bring up, I don't know if we really want to go down the "who's going to profit" road. (Lots of catfishing guide ads around the forum....)

Sully's is probably the most well known bowfishing supplier in the country. He is one of the best and most reputable in the business.

I'll let him answer his own question, but from what I know of Sully's business reputation, I seriously doubt the financial aspect has much, if anything, to do with it.

Those are just my observations....I'll let him give his own reasons for getting involved. I just know the feedback I've seen on the internet.

(I needed one more post to be able to use the PM feature....hope Sully doesn't mind me responding...) :cool:


P.S. This is not a paid advertisement. :)

[gadzooks]

But is interesting that you didn't bother to join this forum until the bowfishing for catfish debate started.

[bandit06]

I have sat and read the whole thread today. Some of it seems childish and some of it on point. So, having read it all I guess I will weigh in. I am a bowhunter. I have not hunted with a rifle in 15 or more years. My passion is elk hunting and I am proud to say that I killed 2 this year and we eat elk almost every meal we eat meat. I have killed hundreds of animals with a bow and only recall loosing two deer. Both of which were eaten by coyotes when I found them the next day. I live on Lake Fork. I grew up on Lake Ray Hubbard. I have probably as much time on the water both day and night as any 47 year old alive. I have to say that I JUST DO GET IT. I can't recall seeing enough catfish in the shallows that I could get a shot at to make a difference. I do see on a weekly basis plenty of discarded catfish, bass and crappie at he local boat docks. I grew up bowfishing carp and gar in the shallows. And I do remember that was a great amount of fun. I sold and gave those fish to folks that I knew liked them. Today I would be making cut bait for catfish with them. As far as I know CATFISH are game fish in Texas. They have limits of creel and size on them. Flathead, Channel and Blue do at least. Bullheads are bait. There are laws against wanton waiste. Personally, I hope that they don't pass a hunting season on the Catfish. If they do, they should open a season on Bass too. I would love to go up in Birch creek behind my house and shoot some of the big bass sows I see on their beds that won't bite my jig and pig or fluke. JUST KIDDING, but there lies the point I feel that catfishers feel. The only real fish that will be taken are those of good breeding size and those fish should be placed back in the lake for breeding. There are plenty of eaters out there to catch. If you want to parade one of the big fellows around and end its life and eat it so be it, you have that right. I know folks who think a 100 pound flathead is great table fair. I will always be happy with a picture and some of that fishes offspring to satisfy my palet. I love to Bowhunt and Bowfish, but I would have to pass on a season to Bowfish Catfish.

[cowboy20]

The only real fish that will be taken are those of good breeding size and those fish should be placed back in the lake for breeding.

I understand the concern over this statement, but there is a bit of a misconception here. The same as you guys take pictures of your biggest catches and share those pictures with your friends, bowfishers do the same.

Just because you see pictures of bowfishers with large alligator gar, buffalo, grass or common carp, doesn't mean that we harvest those everytime we're on the water. We take the pictures of our best and share those pictures. The photos you see are not necessarily indicative of what a normal trip is like (none of my trips turn out like any of the pictures I've seen).

I have bowfished almost exclusively in Arkansas for the past 5 years (moved to TX last year), and in those 5 years, I have only taken one catfish and it weighed 5 lbs. I have only seen a couple bigger than that while bowfishing, but neither of them would have topped 10 lbs. (I'm guessing they were around 8 lbs).

Catfish are not stupid fish. While they may lie in the shallows for quiet boats, they don't sit still when a boat with a running generator approaches. They swim away, and the closer you get, the faster they swim. Where gar move slowly on top of the water, shooting a catfish is more like shooting underwater skeet with a bow, or like shooting at a wood duck that has been shot at and missed. It's not the easy task that you would think it is.

I need to finish reading the info that Timotha sent me, but in the meantime, does anyone else have information on how having large numbers of trophy cats may affect the aquatic ecosystem? Where is the biological data stating that releasing all breeders back into the waters is a good thing? That's the study I want to see. I'm sure one exists, I just need to be directed to it, and I would appreciate any help in finding it.

I'm also curious as to why there are no regulations in place to keep the breeders from being harvested with a R&R? I have seen several large catfish heads on fenceposts here in TX (Lake Lavon is a prime example), so if this is harming the catfish populations, why is there not a law already in place to prevent it?

[Sully]

gadzooks

Yes I sell bowfishing Equipment however that doesnt change the facts anymore then the fact that Txcatfishguide has a guide service !

The reason I didn't get involved on this board until the bowfishing issue was brought up was because as far as I know until this topic was brought up no one was making false statements about bowfishing and bowfishermen ! Wouldn't you go to a bowfishing board if they were posting lies about catfishermen in general ?

Bandit06

Good post however I have a few questions you stated I can't recall seeing enough catfish in the shallows that I could get a shot at to make a difference.

If that is truly the case - end of argument correct ?

Then you stated The only real fish that will be taken are those of good breeding size and those fish should be placed back in the lake for breeding

Now my question is " will the REAL breeder size that are taken not be enough to make a difference ? " Not trying to be smart just using what you have stated together.

Another question is that if the taking of these what you call breeder size fish is so detrimental why has this NOT showed up in the lakes that have allowed bowfishing for catfish for years ?

[David Knotts]

I fish Toledo Bend, I've seen bowfishermen and r/r guys get into some reel heated fights with words that I aint going to say. This was done in front of a lot of young kids. Now you tell me who was in the wrong, both men were, for not being grown up enough to keep their words not so salty, with a lot of kids watching. If you like or dislike to bowfish either choice is fine, and if you have words with someone please watch your mouth, you never know who is watching, it may be your kids, and what would our MOMs say if they knew we were talking like that.

[Sully]

Glad I never ran into the R&R guys that you are talking about David as it could have possibly change my mind about all the great folks I have meet on both sides of Toledo bend ! While I haven't fished east Texas in a few years I use to fish Rayburn & Toledo Bend and Martin Creek alot ( I use to live in south Arkansas so wasn't all that far away ) Pulled a large airboat with all the shooing lights all over Texas and never ran into anyone who had any bad thing to say about bowfishing !

Guess there is alway a few in the crowd !

[gadzooks]

TPWD does not have a handle on catfish populations in Texas lakes and rivers. Supposedly, they are developing new census methods for gathering infomation on cat populations. Until, such methods are developed, maybe there should be a moratorium on new methods of taking catfish. Let the scientific evidence determine what needs to be done to maintain catfish populations.

Actually, this is sort of a side debate for bowfishermen. What will become more interesting in coming years is the fight between carp fishermen and bowfishermen over taking carp. As carp fishing is quickly becoming big business, and money talks, it'll make for a most interesting debate. If I were a bowfisherman, I'd save my time and breath on the catfish issue for that debate.

[cowboy20]

The war between the carpers and the bowfishers has been going on for quite a few years now, and both sides fight it every day. What you are saying isn't news to us.

Since states spend thousands upon thousands of dollars per year to control carp populations, science, in addition to the money the states can save, will hopefully dictate the outcome of that one. ;)

If science and biology dictated all fish and game laws, I have a feeling we would all be a much happier group, regardless of our method of harvest.

Supposedly, they are developing new census methods for gathering infomation on cat populations. Until, such methods are developed, maybe there should be a moratorium on new methods of taking catfish. Let the scientific evidence determine what needs to be done to maintain catfish populations.


I would agree with this, IF there were reason to believe that catfish populations were already low. I got the same generic response as you did, from TPWD when I contacted them. But when I talked to individual biologists responsible for the lakes in their area, they felt that their lakes were prospering and were not short on catfish.

As was stated, there is no written documentation, but if anyone should know the official status of a lake, I would think that it would be the biologist responsible for it.