Culling - Legal in Missouri?

[Mr.T]

All this recent research on the new catfish limits has had me digging through the wildlife code looking for an answer to this question:

Is it legal in Missouri to "cull" fish in your posession?

That is, if I'm already at the daily limit for whatever species and I catch another one (a bigger one that I'd rather keep), can I release one of the fish in my posession and replace it with the new one?

The code is not clear at all in that regard - they define "posession" fairly loosely and make no mention of "culling" anywhere that I can find.

Are you technically in violation of the posession limit during the time it takes you to toss one out? Are you setting yourself up for a ticket from some Barney Fife conservation officer?

Anyone have an "official" opinion from someone in the MDC?

[Itch2Scratch]

I ask an officer this very question but I bet if I ask another one I would get a different answer Mr.T. His answer was that if you are going to release them it has to be as they are caught. I am sure the reasoning behind that is that not everyone has a live well. People who use stringers would probably be putting back mortally injured fish. Personally if you have a live well and the fish are healthy I don't see a problem with it.

[Rockin' Blues]

A friend of mine was fishing crappi at Mark Twain and one of them had his limit 15 and was checked.He was told it was ok to fish for crappi still but only catch and release.

[GaryF]

I have a friend who was trout fishing at Roaring River. He caught his limit, but continued to catch and release. The agent gave him a ticket. It doesn't "seem" right, though. It's one thing with trout, but go catch 5 catfish, then switch to crappie fishing, and you just might end up catching another catfish anyway.

[Catcaller]

That doesn't seem right Gary...but then again I don't live or fish in Missouri. (Althought I'd love to try out the hybrids at Truman)

In Kansas (according to the regulation booklet) it's illegal to cull...but you can continue to fish as long as you release any caught after you get your limit.

[cook]

I don't see how anyone could get a ticket,even for trout,if its catch and release.Wether or not you have a limit should not matter at all.Thats one ticket I would have challenged in court.

[Catcaller]

The CO was probably counting on him not challenging it. I'd fight it myself. Too bad most things these days comes down to money. That's what it sounds like to me.

[GaryF]

Well, I found this, it looks to be an area regulation that we shouldn't have to worry about outside the trout parks.

http://www.mostateparks.com/roaringriver/troutregs.htm

"No person shall continue to fish for any species in these trout waters after having four trout in possession."

Still seems kind of harsh.

[cook]

Gary-thanks for digging that up-guess thats why I dont fish for trout.Too many regs and I don't drive a Volvo.

Wolfie-2 limits and your done for the day???Guess you don't have to worry about that rule Bwhaaaaaaaa :):)

[Mr.T]

Did you also know once you have two limits of any two types of fish you must stop for the day?

That's an interesting point.

I know I read "somewhere" that part of the argument in favor of the new blue cat limits was that, overall, you'd be able to actually take *more* fish than under the current limits.

So whereas now you can take only 10 channels and blues combined, plus 5 flats, under the new rules, you can take 10 channels, 5 blues and 5 flats. EXCEPT THAT.... you're restricted to only 2 limits, period. So you really *can't* take more fish, only the same amount.

Now, suppose I only keep 4 blues and 9 channels. Can I then go and take 15 crappie and 5 flatheads?

[smallriverrat]

I maybe wrong but I seem to remember a daily limit then possession limit. And both limits are usually different. I think for truman the daily limit is 30 crappie but possession limit is like 60? Usually the possession limit is double the daily limit. So If you hit your daily limit you can either fish for another fish or take those back and come back til your possession limit is hit. Or you can fish til you are one from your limit then fish for another species til your one from your limit etc. Of course that night fresh fish is good for dinner (which also lowers your limit too)

Dave

[Willy]

I used to fish with a MDC employee at times and if I remember the rule it was twice your daily limit in a 24 hour period,in other words you could legally have 10 flatheads plus up to 20 channels or blues in the boat ,but with the new rule ya can have 5 flats ,10 channels,and 5 bluecats in a 24 hr period per person in possession =20 fish in the pot per man with no more than twice that at one time/24hr period. When in doubt call the local agent or Jeff city to get it right.

[Mr.T]

Page 44, (F) "A person may posses no more than 2 (two) statewide daily limits of any species at any time."

I think I've figured this one out... And I don't think it means what you think it means... :rolleyes: Smallriverrat's post got the wheels turning in my head, so I did some more research...

This rule is saying that you're not allowed to have more than 2 times the daily limit of a particular species in your "possession" at any given time, not that you have to stop fishing once you've limited out on two species in one day.

So, for example, you can't have more than 10 flats in your possession at any given time, and you can't keep more than 5 per day. The same section also states that you can't have more than your daily limit in your possession while on the waters where the limit applies. Whic means you can catch 5 flatheads, keep those 5 with you in the boat until you get off the water, and have another 5 in the freezer at home. But that's all you're allowed. Once all 10 of them are in the freezer, you're in violation if you catch and keep any more flatheads. Eat some and you're good to go.

So by my reckoning, if you've got a freezer chock full of fish, you could be in trouble if an agent ever starts investigating...

I'm going to clarify this one with the MDC also, but I'm about 99.5% certain that my interpretation is correct.

And if you *really* want to get technical, the rules go on to say that you have to label all "stored wildlife" with your name, address, permit number, species and date placed into storage. But I'll bet there's not a soul in the state who abides by that rule...

This section of the code covers daily and possession limits in general: http://www.sos.mo.gov/adrules/csr/current/3csr/3c10-4.pdf

[spoonfish]

You are correct Marty
The possesion limit is (usally) 2 times the daily limit, that dosent mean you have to stop fishing just because you have caught your limits on 2 different kinds of fish.
One exception I know of is once you have caught your (Daily) limit of 2 spoonbill you are not allowed to continue to fish for spoonbill any more that day.
Even though the possesion limit on spoonbill is 4 per person.
Unless its a special regulation such as the spoonbill you can continue to fish as far as I know.
Confusing aint it LOL.

[thomas feldon]

Guys; How much fish is enough? I think the limits provide enough room to feed a family of 6 for a week, every meal! Don't be selfish.
We are talking about 1 day aren't we. If Your from the desert I could understand.
What about catching your limit for the day, and spend some time with the miss's, or the kid's.
Think about it!
Even fish eat the small and leave the biggins to repopulate so they can eat again later. Except if your a fat cat and when your hungry you want everything that will fit in your mouth.
Don't choke when you swallow to much.
You don't have to feed the nieghbor.
Teach him how to fish and you both can catch the daily limit.
Now you and your nieghbor have enough to feed 12 for a week.:rolleyes:

[Mr.T]

I think a lot of this limit discussion is more theoretical than anything - or, at least it is for me -- I don't recall the last time I caught a limit of *anything* let alone a limit on more than one species in a day. But as we go into the new 5 fish limit on blues, I can see it becoming a lot more likely that I might actually hit a limit one day and there are a lot of points here that are good to know.

I still don't think I agree with Wolfie's interpretation of the "2 species limits and you're done" thing - will call the local office and see what they have to say. Maybe he's right - though if he is, it's certainly not clear in the regs. I'll report my findings here.

[Mr.T]

FYI - Talked to the folks at the MDC's Kansas City district office and they confirmed that there is no rule requiring you to stop fishing after catching your limit on 2 species in one day.

The "no more than 2 (two) statewide daily limits " rule that's been quoted here defines the possession limit for a given species as being 2 daily limits for that species. And that general possession limit is trumped by any more specific possession limit given for a particular species elsewhere in the code (for example, blue cats taken on the Mississippi river have different daily and possession limits.)

They also confirmed that culling is not permitted - the keep/release decision has to be made at the time the fish is caught. I asked about the "gut hooked and bleeding fish" scenario and was told that it would basically be up to the discretion of the field agent if you are questioned. Though I'd think any self-respecting agent with a little common sense would give you credit for keeping a mortally wounded fish, even if it means releasing another already in your possession to stay at the daily limit.

[smallriverrat]

Guys; How much fish is enough? I think the limits provide enough room to feed a family of 6 for a week, every meal! Don't be selfish.
We are talking about 1 day aren't we. If Your from the desert I could understand.
What about catching your limit for the day, and spend some time with the miss's, or the kid's.
Think about it!
Even fish eat the small and leave the biggins to repopulate so they can eat again later. Except if your a fat cat and when your hungry you want everything that will fit in your mouth.
Don't choke when you swallow to much.
You don't have to feed the nieghbor.
Teach him how to fish and you both can catch the daily limit.
Now you and your nieghbor have enough to feed 12 for a week.:rolleyes:

Well Tom, all I was trying to say is I don't fell the need to stop fishing just because I limited out on two species. I am perfectly fine with C&R. I don't have a little miss or kids to go home to and I enjoy fishing. It is not a matter of how much I can catch and keep it is just a matter of letting me do what I like. If I do limit out on two species then I will go to C&R and not have a problem with it. Besides there is some nights that I don't fell like cleaning fish so that night is all C&R and there is other nights that I fish for food.

Dave

[GaryF]

"Guys; How much fish is enough?"

I don't think anyone in the thread is complaining about the limits, just trying to understand the rules so that we don't get into trouble. Sometimes things are not as clear as one section of the wildlife code makes it appear. My buddy who got the ticket for continuing to catch and release trout after catching a limit never would have intentionally broken the rule. FWIW, I only kept one catfish last year, a smallish channel cat.

[micus]

Not all agents interpret the rules the same. My buds and I have always stopped keeping one short of the limit if we were going to keep on fishing just to be on the safe side.

[Rockin' Blues]

:confused: :confused: i too called the mo dept. of con. st.louis,i was told that once you limitted out on one species,you could not fish for that species,but could for another,was also told its up to the interpretation of the agent. this does not seem right to me,its kind of a flip of a coin on who decides,why cant this be clearified and be the same no matter who interperates it?:confused:

[Netmanjack]

Hey guys, make some room for me on the water. I never limited out in my life ! :eek: Sounds like Missouri is the place to be! :0a10:

[Crispy Critter]

What about a cosumption limit? If I eat my daily possesion limit and then go across the road and start in eating out of my Brother-in-law's platter am I breaking the law or just p*ssing off my Brother-in-law?Just a thought to ponder:D

[thomas feldon]

Sorry, Didn't mean to sound like a vegitarian. It seem's that when your in an area or going to an different area, make yourself aquainted with the local conservation office. Call ahead to find out what their interpratation of the regulations are. Follow their law for their area. Could save alot of hassle when you get questioned by the troopers. And if you can get some names of the people you talked too, Could save your pocketbook from being fished out by the local government. Kill'em with kindness, drop a name, Follow their regulations, come out on top, Live to fish another day!;)

[Kutter]

Personally, I think there aught to be a possession limit on brother-in-laws. I got 12.

Wolfie, if you got to keep turkey beards labeled, how about deer head mounts on the wall?

[Crispy Critter]

Your just pi$$ing off the brother in law critter. But who cares, he is just the brother in law. Needs smacked up side the head for letting you get into his catfish platter anyway...lol
LOL...Good deal.I wouldn't want to break the law just to accomplish my goal;) I won't have to worry about it anymore...they just bought a house on Table Rock and moved.He knows I won't travel that far to eat his crappie,He says that's all he's fishing for from now on:D

[Crispy Critter]

[QUOTE=Kutter]Personally, I think there aught to be a possession limit on brother-in-laws. I got 12.

I tend to agree,I just have 1 sister=1 Brother-in-law but my wife has 14 brothers and sisters all married=14 brothers-in law on that side.Total 15 brothers-in-law=Too many :eek:

[Itch2Scratch]

LOL...Good deal.I wouldn't want to break the law just to accomplish my goal;) I won't have to worry about it anymore...they just bought a house on Table Rock and moved.He knows I won't travel that far to eat his crappie,He says that's all he's fishing for from now on:D

Don't ya just love it when a plan comes together Critter?...LOL;)

[Crispy Critter]

:grin-big: :cool:

[safetybass]

OK, for the sake of clarifying this (or just arguing) let's say Wolfie had managed to keep two limits of crappie. (In his dreams) He fries crappie for lunch Saturday and eats one limit. If he goes out after lunch and crappie fishes, if he actually managed to catch another keeper, is he over the possession limits because he hasn't taken a dump yet?:grin-big:

[Crispy Critter]

Yea,I was wondering about all these little technicalities.If you have a belly full does that count toward your limit.I would like to find out before Mr. Agent wants to see ALL the fish I have on me. :conc-big:

[Crispy Critter]

I for one actually understand the daily limit and possession limit.It's laid out pretty simple in the regulations, but there's nothing like having a little fun with the topic.You can tell we're all getting spring fever.Maybe someone will get out there and catch a big mess of kitties so we will have something to talk about besides potty humor. :)

[Crispy Critter]

Oh yea, now I remember the topic was culling.I understand that one too,sorry for leading us off the topic.I'll try to stay focused :blink:

[Mr.T]

You guys are gettin' a little stir crazy...

[Itch2Scratch]

And your not Marty?....LOL:rolleyes:

[Mr.T]

Well, yeah I guess I am.

Spent the early part of the week cleaning every fishing reel I own, putting new line on a few and making sure the kids' poles are ready to use. Then I installed a 12V cigarette lighter outlet and a permanent plug "inlet" for the onboard charger in my new boat. Also have managed to wear most of the ink off the pages of my Cabela's Spring 2006 Fishing catalog and played enough "Rapala Pro Fishing" on the kids' Playstation that my fingers hurt...

And now I'm headed over to James A. Reed wildlife area in Lee's Summit in a few minutes to have a go at some of the trout they recently stocked. I used to fish at Bennett Springs quite a bit when I was younger, but never caught a trout out of a lake in my life. We'll see how it goes.

It might be trout for dinner or it might be PB&J, but either way, I'm Gone Fishin'...

[Itch2Scratch]

Best of luck on that trip Marty, at least your getting out and that should help. :)

[cook]

Also have managed to wear most of the ink off the pages of my Cabela's Spring 2006 Fishing catalog
Kinda suks this year-40 pages of fishing and 200 of clothes

[Rockin' Blues]

talked to another agent today,Denise H.she says you can continue to fish,catch and release on all fish except trout,after you have your limit,except on water otherwise marked.Once you have your limit of that particular fish,any more of those fish caught must be released,gut hooked or not

[Mr.T]

For those of you waiting with anxious anticipation, I didn't catch a thing yesterday. Some of the other folks were catching a few - found I was using the powerbait wrong - so headed to Cabela's during lunch to get some smaller hooks and maybe try it again - but the weekend weather is supposed to be even colder, so I expect the pond will be froze up solid shortly.

Wolfman, I watched one guy pull out a few little trout and thought to myself "I use bait bigger than that!"... Still, I bet trout tastes better than shad in my frying pan...

[Itch2Scratch]

Yeah, we used Velveta, crawlers, mayflys, grasshoppers, crickets, helgramites(spelling), and minnows up in the U.P. of Michigan. In artificials the most effective was the tiniest spinner we could find. Think it was called Panther Martin or something but tiny rooster tails work also, just not as well. Best color was black body with gold blade.

[Catcaller]

Velveta cheese Mr T. Trout absolutely LOVE it!
I used to fish Bennet years ago before the big flood every couple of weeks(trout, crappie and cats are about the only fish i like to eat).
Id catch a nice limit when no one else was catching anything. Course being an old river catter i could read the water better then most and could find those nice dead spots they like to hang out in to.
Broiled trout with leamon and butter is hard to beat.

Bad thing about the parks is you could be the only person in a section. Catch a couple of 2-3lb trout and you end up with half a dozen trying to fish right on top of you. One of these days im going to try Taneycomo out. Might even use the flyrod down there.

If you want to have some fun use a flyrod for bullheads in a slough or catch the carp sucking down seeds off the top of the water. Hook into a 10lb carp on a flyrod and things can get Crazy!:)
You'll love Taneycomo if you try it. There's some MONSTER Brownies and Rainbows in there. My bet is the next all tackle world record Brown Trout comes from Taneycomo. Go below the dam seperating Taneycomo and Tablerock...and try the flyrod there...it's a can't miss deal. Just be careful...when the whistle goes off...vacate IMMEDIATELY if you're wading...it means that they're getting ready to open the gates and release water!!

[safetybass]

Wolfman - I didn't mean to imply you caught both limits on the same day. Shoot - that would require the Catholic Church evaluation as a miracle. I simply meant you had accumulated your possession limit -probably over a month or two period-:p And decided to eat some so you could go catch some more! The issue of eating some for lunch then going and catching more was supposed to be a joke. Lord knows as full of s#@t as you are, it will be a week before those fish are out of your system!

However, it retrospect an issue of possession is raised. Not after you ate them, but the fact that you had them in your possession that day -

Fish you eat for shore lunch count toward your limit for the day; so fish you eat don't count toward your possession limit if you caught 'em a week earlier?

Sounds a little fine to cut that frog hair. I really think our Conservation Agents are not that anal-retentive, and having met a lot of them, they don't have cranial-rectal inversion either.

Several folks have gotten it right on here. One limit of a species (or designated group) per day. Not more than two daily limits in your possession at any time, any location(s). I am glad they are cracking down on folks who limit in the morning and again in the evening. I've heard people talk about doing that with crappie at Truman, and that really pi$$es me off. And, they are usually the ones who are at the lake day after day. They can really put a dent in the population if they fish for a few days. They catch the nice spawning females moving into an area, 30 a day for 4 or 5 days, and they can impact fishing in that area for a couple years. Those of us who can't make it to the lake very often get to fish an area that used to be good, now just has some small ones. And we wonder what happened.

So I say, write 'em up boys and girls, they deserve that ticket!

Culling is prohibited unless participating in a legitimate C & R tournament. Unless fish are carefully molly-coddled in the boat, culling is a real stress on the fish released. Usually the only ones going to the extreme to molly-coddle that much are people who have a vested interest in keeping the fish healthy. Those would be the people in C & R tournaments. Even in our C & R tournaments, we are not allowed to "cull" a fish that is not healthy. If it dies, it gets weighed. So the "no cull" is a rule designed to prevent additional harm to fish beyond those necessary to accumulate a limit of legal fish. As such, I say enforce it. JMHO

[safetybass]

Yeah, I knew you were going to bring up that shad limit thing. What can I say? I got some really bad information from someone. :o I should have known better. But now I do, so I won't have that problem again. Good thing the mutt liked 'em. :0a5:

[fishingbuddy4]

Be nice wolfman larry is the only one that will let you fish with him LOL.

[Mr.T]

Took the kids over to James A. Reed wildlife area today to fish at the kids-only pond and they both managed to catch 2 nice trout each, as well as missing a few others. Beautiful sunny day and protected from the winds so it was quite enjoyable all the way around. That Berkley Powerbait is good stuff. Don't know what it is, but it works!

[Itch2Scratch]

Marty are ya tellin us the kids are havin better luck than you this year?:p ..LOL...Its great to see a dad get their kids into the great outdoors(even if they do out fish ya).:)