head shots?

[baitchunker]

am i the only one?

ppl think i am crazy when i tell them that i shoot does and hogs in the head. to me it makes perfect sense.
1. they either run away un-hurt, or drop like a rock--none of this trailing blood stuff.
2. less mess when cleaning
3. more meat left
4. more challenging
5. you end up spending more time observing the animal, which reduces the risk of accidentally shooting a button buck

6. hogs are nasty critters, they can take a lot of punishment... except for the head shot.
7. they die faster, no pain and suffering more ethical


what do yall think?

[postbeetle]

Can you come to Iowa on a sabbatical and teach these lonies where the head is? They do pretty good around here getting the kidneys or paunch or large colon and occasionally the spleen. It is a 2 hour car ride to find these gut shot deer. After a hundred yards these guys give up the chase and wait for something else to come along.

Is the head anywhere near the tail? Need a professor. I don't even think they know where the barrel on their gun is.

[baitchunker]

one of the first gents to visit our camp this year, had just gotten back from a hunt in iowa. if the bucks are really falling outa trees as he described, then i would love to come up and give a 3 day one shot one kill anatomy class.

[SSgt Fishslayer]

hey JD, from what i know, not to many people are quite as well trained on the use of weapons as we are. i was watching a show about hunting white tail in texas and they actually stated on there that not to many poeple that come out to hunt there can take a deer out at 200 yds. i found this quite interesting since i constantly shoot my weapons and hit target out to 500 yds with iron sites. and to hear that these guys cant take a deer @ 200 yds with a scope was very unnerving. i think that if someone were to try to take more head shots they would not get nearly as many deer, hogs, or anything. i think that people need to learn how to sight in thier weapons. i used to hunt with a fellow that if he could get his shot group within a dinner plate at 150 yds he thought he was on target. i didnt believe that. if i cant get mine within 3 minutes of angle (size of a dip can) @ 300 yds, i am adjusting and readjusting my scope until i can put those shots in that area. just me though.

[floundahman]

I have never even thought of shooting a deer in the head. I had always been taught to aim for the heart/lungs. I suppose that it's humane. I like to get photos of all of the deer that I shoot and I don't think that a head shot would be very photogenic. If it kills 'em quick and you're comfortable taking the shot, go for it. Personally, I don't believe that I'll be trying it any time soon. I wouldn't criticize anyone for taking an animal legally and humanely.

[GMC FishHauler]

i do not do head shots myself. I am a decent shot, i have competed for the National Guard in the National Combat match. if anyone cares to look up the results, Texas won this year as well as several other years. I do not need to defend my ability to shoot.
I have shot does in the head, it can be a clean effective way to kill them. No meat is lost to speak of. The problems come when your shot is slightly off.
I have trailed a deer for miles that a friend headshot. What had happened was he aimed right between the eyes and pulled the trigger. What we thing happened was that he misjudged the distance and hit slighly high. the bullet ripped the top of the does head off and she hit the ground flopping, only to get up and run and run and run. We found her then next morning, after over a mile of blood trailing.
My uncle tells of this other thing that can happen when taking head shots. He shoots the same round as me, .22-250. He was gonna head shoot a spike, well he hit slightly low. The bullet hit between the eyes and nostrils of the deer, not exactly sure where cuz of the violence of that fast bullet. he says that deer flopped for 10 minutes before laying still. he still had to walk to the deer which was bellowing and cut its throat.
I aim at another place on the deer that has the same effect as a headshot, with a slightly larger margin for error. from broadside, 1" below and 1" back from the earhole. This neck shot drops them in there tracks, messes up a minimum ammount of meat, and if you track off slightly it has the same effects as a heart or lung shot. Depending whether u hit windpipe or artery.
Take in mind that i am using what most would consider to be a varmit rifle for deer. This is legal in my state, and i believe it is more about bullet placement than size. If i hunt a wide field that might have a long shot, i take a bigger gun such as 7mm or 308. That way i have an even larger margin of error for longer shots where wind and distance really comes into play.

[Scott Daw]

I've heard of people trying it and ending up blowing off a jaw or wounding it. I dont advise headshots on deer they're just to squirrely for the average hunter. If you can do it, & drop em each time then kudos to you. But I'd never condone it, imho. Headshots on hogs is different. larger target and not as flexible as a deer.

[billNpam]

JD I see your reasoning and would attend to agree with ya.......But IMO there are going to be alot more missed wounded deer because you have to admit some people cannot shoot if there life depended on it. The sid eof the deer is a whole lot bigger target.

[SSgt Fishslayer]

there are alot of good arguments on here about the ethical attributes of a head shot. but the same arguments can be made about a shot made broad side that is either low or high. if a deer is gut shot, he can run for miles before dying, and alot of times there is alot of meat ruined and the deer is pretty much worthless by the time you find them. i prefer head shots for anything, but if i cant get one, i will take a neck shot. i shoot a .308 so its not a big deal for me to drop a deer with a head or neck shot. if you are using a smaller caliber then i would not necassarily recommend it.

[tofish]

i think the only ones that should even try for a head shot are the guys that know they can do it. that isn't most hunter either.
i hunted when young with my dad constantly. one yr with a friend of his that retired from airforce. he was on the shooting team and had trophies out the gazoo. but as we found out, put a live target in front of him, and couldn't hit crud. he shot at a buck at distance of about 45-50 yds. head shot with 9 power scope. idiot cranked scope all the way up and admitted all he could see was fur. we found the lower jaw. i tracke the darn deer about 6 miles before getting a shot of over 200 yds with a v site 30-30. direct heart shot as wanted. freds mouth just dropped. point is, not all can do it. my rifles are sited in at inch group at 200yd. that's off hand. but now it's been yrs since i've been able to hunt, so wouldn't want to try it.
gary

[baitchunker]

well, i started doing it last year, and i have to admit i am pretty confident in my placement. twice last year, i backed off and took a neck shot due to thick cover, and range. i havent so much as seen a reflex twitch yet...

i agree with most of you, its not a shot for an average hunter. but, for me it has been very effective. especially on the hogs (which seem to be created by scrap iron).

i appreciate yalls views and input. thats why i posted it on here. so far i see good sound reasoning for and against.

thank yall,
j.d.

p.s. did i mention i still take heart shots on the big bucks?

[Grumper]

Personally, I love shooting does in the head. But I usually only will take a head/neck shot if they are in close range. If they are say...100 yds or more, I'll stick to the typical heart/lung shot. Most of the does I have shot in the past few years, I have shot at close range, being less than 30 yds. I am also hunting with a .300 Win Mag. If I aim right at the base of the head on the neck, it will usually dang near decapitate it. Some may think it's inhumane, but I've never had to track one. They have always dropped in their tracks. Not even a flinch. The best part is, then you usually will have a cleaner field dressing job, and you eliminate alot of meat gone to waste. JMHO.:wink:

[bootshowl]

JD & Joey, you guys are Marines. The Marine & HIS rifle is the best thing they've come up with for the armed forces to date. I don't think technology is ever gonna beat that training theme. Head shots are protocol.
The rest of us need to learn how to shoot. I'm happy with a good lung shot.
:big_smile:

[tofish]

bootshowl, it just takes practice, practice, practice. and a natural hand at it. :smile2:. i was fortunate myself. i (tooting my horn a little) can naturally shoot, and after 22 yrs in marines, fired expert 19 out of 22 yrs. people in ca thought i was crazy using a 30-30 instead of 06, 270, or bigger rifle. but i could still knock them down up to 300 yds.
but i do gotta say, for majority of people, myself included, lung or heart is safest shot to make. just be prepared for a possible hike.
gary

[coble9]

I would say headshots are great if you are accurate enough and know where the brain is and don't hit eyes, jaw, nose, neck, or ears or whatever. Some people are not experienced enough to know the proper shot placement. They think that any head shot at any angle = brain. I have never been deer gun hunting, but I only take head shots on squirrel. Less meat wasted, cleaner kill, they bleed out nicely and gut cleanly. If you can take a squirrel consistantly at 50 yards, a deer at 100 shouldn't be too bad. Granted with the firearms out today you could go out to 500+ yards. People just need to know their abilities and not take unsure shots.

[TDawgNOk]

Too many people today don't take the time to learn to shoot properly. I learned when I was 11. In boy scouts I had the opportunity to take a class for my rifle merit badge that was held at a local college in their indoor gun range. We spent several weekends going to that class. My shot placement with a .22 went from the size of the bottom of a coke can, down to a nickle at 50 yds. That was from prone/kneeling/sitting/standing. Throughout the rest of my childhood/young adult hood, I generally fired standing. When I was 16 it was nothing for me to throw my .303 to my shoulder and fire at a target 100 yrds away and hit the bingo dobber mark that we had put on it. I've hardly shot since then, and I'm 31 now. My shot placement is no where near as exact as it was. I went out before deer season and went through 30+ rounds getting used to shooting that ol .303 again. Before taking a shot yesterday, all those hours of classes went running through my head, and I still shot about 1" - 2" higher than I meant to.

My plan right now, is that by this time next year, I plan on being able to keep my shot placement back in a quarter at 100 yrds. But I will still take the safe shot on an animal. I'd rather make 100% sure of a kill, than have the possiblity of the animal turning its head 4 degrees 1 way or another and wind up just seriously maiming it.

[kat in the hat]

I don't have a problem with someone taking a head shot on a doe. 'Specially you Chunker. Sounds like you are pretty well experienced at it. Me...I'm more comfortable with a double lung, and/or heart shot. IF a deer ever runs on me, I might reconsider. So far, none of the deer I've shot have taken another step. DOA. I hate tracking deer too, but I've never had to track my own...yet.

[kat in the hat]

Also, here's a close-up view of the exit wound on the deer that I shot this year with my .300 mag. This deer didn't take another step. I don't understand why they say these guns do so much damage to the meat. Wrong bullet choice possibly? I've done more damage with a .220 swift than the .300 due to the small, fast projectile exploding when it hits any bone.

[chambers bd]

This has USMC stamped all over it, I see our brother Marines are showing off their shooting skills.
Talking about making jerky / you know not wasting any meat.

Can you imagine Bait chunker on a ridge line hammering a doe at 300 yds with a 30-06. ha ha ha poor bambi:smile2:

[72hdflh]

I like the neck shot when I can get it!!! Head if I am close enough, (Shotgun here in Ohio).

[river scum]

I have never even thought of shooting a deer in the head. I had always been taught to aim for the heart/lungs. I suppose that it's humane. I like to get photos of all of the deer that I shoot and I don't think that a head shot would be very photogenic. If it kills 'em quick and you're comfortable taking the shot, go for it. Personally, I don't believe that I'll be trying it any time soon. I wouldn't criticize anyone for taking an animal legally and humanely.

http://www.catfish1.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=564&postid=1275#post1275 beauty is in the eye of the beholder. lol

in my defence, i have the utmost confidence in my slug gun. i dont recomend people take shots that they dont know they can make. practice practice practice!

[DCcatfisher]

I prefer a neck or lung/heart shot with my 7mm mag if possible. I have only had 2 deer run more than just a couple yards that I can remember and both of those were shot in the lungs. I have seen deer killed that have had their ears shot off and lower jaw shot off by a previous hunter.

[poisonpits]

i dont do the head shots but i do the neck shots.i use a 30 30 for my deer hunting but 3 years ago i started cheeting a little my eyes got so that when i focus on the rear sight i couldnt see the front and vice verus.course im hunting out of a stand i put up 25 years ago for bow hunting and i cant see over 30 yards.

[bigcatman]

i like to take a head shot but i did it on a small spike buck this year though it wa a doe but i jerk just enough to shot right below the brain but it drop in its tracks but it idnt die for a half an hour and that was my frist time ever doing that and it was on my second deer about a 1/2inch away from the brain so i think that it wasnt bad but still mad me a little mad that it could of ran off though.

[bootshowl]

James please tell me this image I have in my mind of you is a typo. That it didn't take a half hour for a deer you shot to die.
Even a Marine Corps sniper has more than one bullet. He just tries to make sure it only takes one.
At least a 22 behind the ear, because you have dominion over the animals and a responcibility.....it's called ethics.
If I read it wrong, I apologise for molesting yer hunt.
:big_smile:

[CoonX]

i like to take a head shot but i did it on a small spike buck this year though it wa a doe but i jerk just enough to shot right below the brain but it drop in its tracks but it idnt die for a half an hour and that was my frist time ever doing that and it was on my second deer about a 1/2inch away from the brain so i think that it wasnt bad but still mad me a little mad that it could of ran off though.

If I couldn't give an animal a killing shot, after I wounded it, I'd give up hunting.
You could at least respect the animal enough to put it out of it's misery.

[baitchunker]

i have to agree with these guys. not trying to get on to ya, but next time you should prolly put another one behind his ear. or at least put a knife blade through the jugular.

[postbeetle]

Thanks for the comments fellas. Nice thoughts. With my mouth I best leave well enough alone. John.

[lroyal]

i had to crawl my buddy justins @$$ bout that the other day. he shot a doe through the spine the other day and when i went to get him out the stand awhile later she was still alive. i saw that while i was walkin up and shot her through the back of the head to kill her. then i explained to my friend that if he wanted to keep huntin with me he needed to learn to fire twice.

[channelkatman]

my cousin who is an avid deer hunter told me i should have shot my first deer in the head instead of the heart/lungs area. he told me if you hit it in the head 99 percent of the time its going to go down where it stands. i also agree that it give you more time to look at and examine the deer.

[part time catman]

GOOD TOPIC GUYS , HAS ANYONE HEARD OF CWD
CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE.COULD A HEAD SHOT
CAUSE THE BRAIN FLUIDS AND TISSUE TO CONTAMINATE
THE DEER.

[223reload]

J.D.,I have never had the oppertunity to shoot a deer in the head ,as we can only shoot bucks here ,but I've taken many trophy prarie dogs this way .

[Howie Ketchdem]

I say if you can do it do it, lots of people say its un ethical to shoot at running deer also but alot of people dont roll tires down reveens and shoot at them with slug guns either. i practice running shots al the time mostly small game with 17 hmr 2550 fps which is 300 fps faster than my muzzle loader so pretty good practice. i have shot many,many deer while running and this year was the first time i have had to track a deer that i had shot and i seen it fall so i really didnt have to track it, out of 11 deer i have shot of ten fell in there tracks 5 were with 20ga. 3 with 12ga. 3 muzzle loader. alot of the deer i have shot have been neck shots it works well also i have head shot 2 and both just fell like a pile of bricks one of em did the "tuna" for a minute but was just the nerves. but alot have benn vital shots and they just fall also i have only had to track the doe i shot with muzzle loader at 150 this year, took both lungs right out and she still made it 200 yards before plowing mud. but its all up to the shooter nobody other than your self can tell you if you should aim at a target the size of a deers head with a single projectile type round. i actually know a guy who shot a buck right at the base on his antlers with a bow and arrow said it was laying under his tree for the last 35 minutes of shooting time said its was getting to be that time so Whack right in the top of the head said it dropped like a bag of gravel. but i think its up to the shooter....

[jason berry]

I have done head shots on does for years when its in reasonable distance and I have a good feeling about it and Im seeing a good amount of does. This year I didnt even try because I hardly seen any deer until the last few days when I got my three deer. I use a 30/06 so doing a head shot is pretty reasonable. I usually aim just a little bit low so if I miss I hit them in the next and if you hunt and have shot them in the next with a rifle there going down just the same.

[baitchunker]

i skulled out another nanny last weekend. this time i shot her in the side of the head about 1" right and 1/2 "below her left eye. it seemed to do the trick pretty well. she was standing at a funny angle so i tried to imagine where the bullet would exit her head. i should have known it really wouldnt matter too much, being as i shoot a 140 grain ballistic tip round.

it was very interesting to watch the doe drop. the bullet threw her head and neck way out to the side, and then her legs just kinda went limp. when i got down to go look at her she was still laying there dead as a doornail. it looked like she had just layed down right there, with the exception of her head and neck being stretched out awkwardly.

it wasnt a particularly hard shot. she was about 70 yards away, over my left shoulder. since im right handed, it was a comfortable shot. i did shoot her free handed, but i have a very steady natural point of aim.

thank yall for all of your input on the subject. its nice to hear some of the arguments for and against.

[cantstopgrandma]

The problem with head shots is when you miss. I've seen to many people blow bottom jaws off. I like the heart lung shot. LOTS more room for error.

[Pirate Jerry]

12 years hunting in Maine, Maryland and South Dakota.
Whitetail deer
30/30 at 60 yards : in left eye : out 1/2 inch under right ear : distance traveled 0 ft

30/30 at 85 yards : in base of skull right side : out base of skull left side : distance traveled 0 ft

Pronghorn
.264 winchester magnum at 135 yards : in base of throat under jaw : out back of neck centered : distance traveled 0 ft

.264 winchester magnum at 325 yards : in base of throat at top of chest : out : did not exit : distance traveled 0 ft

both guns were scoped, I fire 200 rounds or more prior to hunting season every year. A beer can is used as a target at all ranges. If you can hit that 4 out of 5 times then you are ready to hunt. No snap shots, no running shots. Wait for the right shot, if you don't get one there is always next year. Enjoy the hunt, the kill isn't everything.

[plainsman]

Head shots? It depends on the shooter. I did one years ago, the rest are all chest cavity. a deer can go 100 yds with a heart shot, but it won't suffer as long as one without a lower jaw. I shot 2 deer this year, one a small doe at about 80 yds with open sites, 308 with 150 gr polymer tip bullet. hit some ribs, what a mess, bullet stayed in right front shoulder, never found it. The other was a spike buck at 40 ft with a scope, 30.06 150 gr went in between ribs, came out between ribs, took out the blood vessel under the backbone, and had blood clots in the heart. real mess in there. meat damage about 9" around the entrance and exit. my eyes ain't what they used to be, but when i shot often, i would shoot rabbits at 50-60 yds with .22 open sites. even running ones. its all about knowing i will not be tracking a deer all night. sometimes if i'm far from where we parked, i head back, and pass up some of the best time cause its late in the afternoon. my hunting partners thought my 80 yd shot with open sites is far, but he is used to bow hunting where 35 yds is about the limit. where we hunt is quite brushy, so getting a long shot where we can clearly see the target is rare, but there are times. before i shoot longer distances with open sites, i'm gonna replace what i got with something a bit more suited to my eyes. i reckon 300 yds would be my limit lately, if i had good sites and practiced enough. i don't have an outdoor range to site in at now, so i go to an indoor one and work on it. not quite the same confidence builder. deer are tough animals when they want to survive, a gut shot deer can survive, but it won't be happy. i shoot both scope and open sites, i prefer open sites for the situations i'm usually in. but there are times i've been in situations where i would prefer the scope to make a shot, and just had to pass it up, i'm not sure if i'm too lazy to trail a wounded deer, or afraid i'll run out of cigarettes before i find it. anyway, oorah marines, and semper fi keep up the rifle.

[iowacatter]

[quote=bigcatman;824415]but i jerk just enough to shot right below the brain but it drop in its tracks but it idnt die for a half an hour

Lead is cheap, Dude, finish it off!

[bc179whitetail]

<P>I agree with gmc fishhauler about 1to2 inches below the ear right in the neck. I think it is the safe way to go if you shoot alot. Whitetails are very tough.I use a 270 or my 50 cal. good hunting to everyone</P>

[seokfisherman]

I sure wish most of the people I see at the gun range before season would only try head shots, there would be more deer the next year mainly because they didn't run off with a bad hit. I don't know how many times I hear "I can hit a paper plate at a hundred yards, thats good enough". After watching them shoot I learned that was one time out of five. And thats before they get to deer camp and drink a twelve pack of liquid courage with all of their buddies. I worked in a convenience store growing up and the evening before deer season the only thing I did was sell deer tags and re-stock the beer cooler. Some of the people are not even sure if it was a buck or a doe when they shot at it. Thats why the times I have hunted public land I wore enough blaze orange that I looked like a giant pumpkin walking through the woods.

[jstall]

I am not a head shooter. I prefer to shoot them in the neck, if they are 200 yards or less. I have never had to look for one shoot in the neck. They always drop where I shot them. Over 200 yards I shoot for the heart.

[cats4uandme]

personally i preffer the neck. i shot a couple last year and when the spine or neck is hit its 0 tracking. they fall where they stand.during the gun seasons in illinois last season i loaded my muzzeloader 2 times. i killed two deer.