Deer guns....

[Cathooker]

What is a perfect deer gun to one man is either a cannon or a pea shooter to another. The average hunter needs to stick with a mid sized caliber for deer hunting.....from 30 / 30 to 7mm mag. In the hands of a seasoned and skilled hunter, that can control his emotions under the stress of shooting a deer, the smaller calibers work just great. Some young hunters try to over compensate by choosing a caliber that is way to big for them. This magnum kicks the fool out of them, they start flinching and then they are no longer accurate.
SHOT PLACEMENT IS THE KEY!!!!!!!!

[south_va_fisherman]

very true. In Fur Fish and Game maganize they were talking about a blackpowder rifle that spits out 3150foot pounds of energy. talk about overkill! I think every all the way down to a .243 is acceptable, and with a "deer" type bullet in a .22-250 it can be a humane hunting tool if accuracy is there. People use to shoot deer with the .22 high power. Even though you could still use the .22 high power i doubt anybody does. If its considered not enough gun, the deer that got hit by it sure disagreed!

[RiverratSC]

Any .22 rimfire is illegal in SC. I wouldn't want to use anything less a .243 but I'll stick to my .30-06 spfd because I hunt a pipeline with plenty of open range. I rather knock them down and keep them there than having to go in search of a wounded deer. Plus I don't have a four-wheeler so chacing them is out.

[Kutter]

First off, I would think over history, the 30/30 has more than likely killed more deer than all others. It was cheap and available and would get the job done. In the modern era, last 40 years, I think the 30-06 has taken the lead, although I have never shot one.
Missouri, normally, I would say has one of the best Conservation Departments around. They sure screwed up a few years back, in my opinion. We went from 357 Mag as a minimum, to ANY centerfire. I would love to hear the argument for using a 25 cal pistol. Now don't get me wrong, I'm no snob. If you can dot the eyes and cleanly kill a deer with your caliber, have at it.

When still hunting or on a drive, through thick brush, I still use the trusty old 30/30 I bought new for $65 back in the early 70's.
However, where I hunt in northcentral Missouri, close shots are not the norm. I needed something that would compensate for my failing vision and still do the damage once it got way out there. After years of homework on it, I get a Browning 7mm Rem Mag and never looked back. Totally agreeing with some of the above statements made on accuracy, I spent more on the Leupold Vari-X III scope than I did for the rifle. Like the saying on binoculars, "Nobody ever said they wished they had bought the cheaper set". Once you have seen quality, you never forget it. Anyway, with this setup, I can shoot as far as I can see and still sight in dead on center knowing the bullet will still land in the kill zone with no problem. Not that I am a long shot shooter, 250 yards, measured, has been my longest. It's just that I am such a poor judge of distance, I need something to compensate.

[kkyyoottee]

Actually there should be 2 one for the woods and one for out west! But if I could only have one it would be a ruger lever action 45.70 unbeatable in any situation. Id have a 2 power fixed scope.

[kkyyoottee]

First off, I would think over history, the 30/30 has more than likely killed more deer than all others. It was cheap and available and would get the job done. In the modern era, last 40 years, I think the 30-06 has taken the lead, although I have never shot one.
Missouri, normally, I would say has one of the best Conservation Departments around. They sure screwed up a few years back, in my opinion. We went from 357 Mag as a minimum, to ANY centerfire. I would love to hear the argument for using a 25 cal pistol. Now don't get me wrong, I'm no snob. If you can dot the eyes and cleanly kill a deer with your caliber, have at it.

When still hunting or on a drive, through thick brush, I still use the trusty old 30/30 I bought new for $65 back in the early 70's.
However, where I hunt in northcentral Missouri, close shots are not the norm. I needed something that would compensate for my failing vision and still do the damage once it got way out there. After years of homework on it, I get a Browning 7mm Rem Mag and never looked back. Totally agreeing with some of the above statements made on accuracy, I spent more on the Leupold Vari-X III scope than I did for the rifle. Like the saying on binoculars, "Nobody ever said they wished they had bought the cheaper set". Once you have seen quality, you never forget it. Anyway, with this setup, I can shoot as far as I can see and still sight in dead on center knowing the bullet will still land in the kill zone with no problem. Not that I am a long shot shooter, 250 yards, measured, has been my longest. It's just that I am such a poor judge of distance, I need something to compensate.


Id say more deer have been killed with a .22 rifle than all the calibres put together. In the hands of many a old farmer who shot them in the ear the deer hit ground, no kicking no nothing!!! Why they arent allowed to day is because people and I am only saying some want to be able to shoot a animal in the toe-nail and have it drop in tracks!!! People on most part are lazy and see sighting in and becoming familar with the limits of their weapon are few and far between. No I for once disagree with you. Ask a old timer in your area and I bet he says more deer have been shot with a .22 than anything.!!

[CatFishingFinatic]

What is a perfect deer gun to one man is either a cannon or a pea shooter to another. The average hunter needs to stick with a mid sized caliber for deer hunting.....from 30 / 30 to 7mm mag. In the hands of a seasoned and skilled hunter, that can control his emotions under the stress of shooting a deer, the smaller calibers work just great. Some young hunters try to over compensate by choosing a caliber that is way to big for them. This magnum kicks the fool out of them, they start flinching and then they are no longer accurate.
SHOT PLACEMENT IS THE KEY!!!!!!!!

I am by far an experienced deer hunter. I have been hunting deer for more than 7 years. I have shot 1 deer. I believe you have to use a gun you are comfortable with. Personally I like my muzzle loader. I like the idea of knowing I have to make that first shot count. I know how the gun is going to react. I know what to expect. I know I can't take any chances or shots that I am not comfortable with. I don't want a wounded deer, when I pull that trigger, I want a dead deer, and I don't want to chase him for 50 miles. I pattern my gun before any hunt mostly just to get used to it again between hunts.

[jpn]

I don't think 1 firearm can do it all. I personally use a few different ones. I like a 280 for long shot cutovers here at home. I also think there is a place for shotguns in the deer woods. But as also was said the 30-30 is hard to beat in the thick close shot woods. But by no means am i saying that it is ok to treat any gun as the so called brush buster. I just think different situations call for different guns. The 280 will work in thick woods but they make so many different guns if you have a few different ones I say use them all. It never hurts to have them all ready so if the unthinkable happens you can have a reliable back up.Just my 2 cents

[CatfishJohn.612]

I belive that you are right about the 30-30. It has definitly made its mark. In my opinion I believe that it boils down to the skill of the hunter. If the hunter does not take the time to "get to know" his firearm and the limitations of said firearm then that leads to all kinds of problems in the woods, ie poor shot placment, use of the wrong bullet for the job. Basically I feel that to be a good hunter you have to became very comfortable with your weapon of choice and at the same time you have to really know your own skill limit. As for one gun to do it all I would have to say that I would have to pick the good old 30-06. That caliber has the power to knock down anything in north america when used with the right type of bullet for the job and you add in good shot placement and you have a deadly combo. JMHO

[derbycitycatman]

I hunt with a .50 cal muzzle loader and a 30/06. I picked the 06 because I figured it would hunt just about any large game. Now that Im into reloading I wish I would have got a .308. I wanted a gun that I could get ammo for just about anywhere just in case. I got the .50 to extend my hunting season, same reason I got a bow. I wouldnt mind a 30/30 or something like it for still hunting. The 06 can get a bit heavy with miles of lugging.

[eagle claw]

i use a ruger 7x57 mauser, but i use a custom handload, loaded by custom cartridge in california, i shot a 140 grain barnes bullet at 3150 fps,
if you need a good load look these people up
jr
also big catfish are biting at santee cooper and lake wylie at night

[randallewis]

You guys don't overlook the 270 caliber. I have two of them a Sako and a Remington 700. Both great guns.

[randallewis]

you guys don't overlook the 270. I have two of them. One a Sako and the other a Remington 700. Both great guns.

[Zing]

The best choice is the one that you can shot well and are comfortable with. Shot placement is the key, and good shot placement comes with range time. Practice off the bag, standing, sitting and kneeling. I have spent a lot of time in the woods and at the range. Cofidence is the key. I would rather pass on a deer then not recover a wounded animal. If you get the shakes when the moments arrives, and you have a place to shoot try running a little then try shooting a good shot group. Breathing and squeezing is the key. As for cal. 6mm to 7 mag for deer size game. I prefer the 25-06, and 6.5x284 win. and I do love the 30-30. Just my two sense worth for what ever it is worth.

[spoonfish]

First off, I would think over history, the 30/30 has more than likely killed more deer than all others. It was cheap and available and would get the job done. In the modern era, last 40 years, I think the 30-06 has taken the lead, although I have never shot one.
Missouri, normally, I would say has one of the best Conservation Departments around. They sure screwed up a few years back, in my opinion. We went from 357 Mag as a minimum, to ANY centerfire. I would love to hear the argument for using a 25 cal pistol. Now don't get me wrong, I'm no snob. If you can dot the eyes and cleanly kill a deer with your caliber, have at it.

When still hunting or on a drive, through thick brush, I still use the trusty old 30/30 I bought new for $65 back in the early 70's.
However, where I hunt in northcentral Missouri, close shots are not the norm. I needed something that would compensate for my failing vision and still do the damage once it got way out there. After years of homework on it, I get a Browning 7mm Rem Mag and never looked back. Totally agreeing with some of the above statements made on accuracy, I spent more on the Leupold Vari-X III scope than I did for the rifle. Like the saying on binoculars, "Nobody ever said they wished they had bought the cheaper set". Once you have seen quality, you never forget it. Anyway, with this setup, I can shoot as far as I can see and still sight in dead on center knowing the bullet will still land in the kill zone with no problem. Not that I am a long shot shooter, 250 yards, measured, has been my longest. It's just that I am such a poor judge of distance, I need something to compensate.

Dang Kutter, you got to be more carefull going up your drive way!~ :smile2:

I shoot a 280 Remington.

[Cathooker]

Ask a old timer in your area and I bet he says more deer have been shot with a .22 than anything.!!

I am an old timer.....been deer hunting for 46 years......maybe the folks in your area was shootin em with 22 s but that is not true in all parts of the country and I can guarantee you that it is not true here.

This post was not about which caliber is the best....this post is about the fact that the average deer hunter in the United States is but an average shot, with average skills and when under the stress / adrenaline rush during an encounter with any big game animal that person does not need to be using a cartridge that requires better than average shooting skill.......
I shoot my three deer rifles no less than a hundred rounds each in different practice situations before deer season....I am an experienced hunter that has been in a varitey of encounters with big game over 46 years.......I am a combat veteran and know the meaning of adrenaline rush and fire control and I will not deer hunt with a 22....the average American deer hunter is none of the above. The average American deer hunter does not shoot his deer rifle more than ten or fifteen times before he goes hunting. I had much rather see them use a BIG caliber than one that requires more skill than they posess.

[peewee williams]

I have seen a deer that had 1 .22 short that had barely punctured it's heart and the deer bled to death internally while running across a corn field.Lucky shot for the deer and the 14 year old.It could have died a slow miserable death.I saw a deer hide that had been skinned off a deer that had been found 31 hours after it had been shot.17 .22 LR holes in the hide.The deer had been blinded by bird shot and kept running into a fence while a kid was shooting and reloading to shoot again.It finely got away to die later and be found 31 hours later.I have killed up to 1000+ steers and hogs over 300 lbs. with a .22 LR at butchering time.It was all anyone ever used.Yep,many a deer was killed by jack lighting farmers with a .22 LR.They did it because it made little noise and they had to kill the deer so that they could make a crop and feed their family.It was best if the deer ran off somewhere else and died.The farmer could not feed his family if he was in jail for killing the deer that was eating the crop that fed his family.Not much choice for a husband and a father.When a crop is just above the ground,every bite kills a plant.Catch 22 situation for the farmer.City folk have no way to understand.This was before culling was allowed like it is today.I liked to hunt with my old collection of military rifles other than the 223.The smallest caliber I ever killed a deer with was a broke legged doe in a fenced pasture with a 222 Rem.at night.I was asked to do so by the game wardens to save them a 2 hour round trip if they were not still tied up after 5 hours that they fully expected to be.I have deer hunted with 6.5x55,270,7x57,7mm rm.mag,30-30,303,30-06,7.62x39,7 mm.Jap,7.62x54,300 wby.mag and 44 mag center fire pistol,.45 & .50 cal.muzzle loaders and dog hunted with 12,16 & 20 gauge shotguns and buckshot.I shot varmints and small game with .22 LR,pistol & rifle,.22 hornet,.222 Rem..30 cal carbine,.45 cal. muzzle loader,12.16,20,and .410 shotguns.I surly miss my guns.Surprisingly I once got two brand new Chinese SKS's with a 1 digit difference in the serial numbers that shot hunting loads as accurate as my Marlin 336.They were great with open sights with my new artificial lenses when my eye were on the up & up.The 7 mm.Rem.mag was a wonder gun as it shot and grouped everything it was fed,in and around a inch.A hunters dream! I once shot and killed a charging fighting mad Boar hog at two feet with a Ruger.22 mag pistol.It was not planed.He was too close for the 12 gauge shotgun as he was inside of the barrels muzzle.I instinctly drew and fired the pistol.I almost got cut as he fell as I was jumping at the same time.It had nothing to do with skill though I was familiar with and good with the pistol.I did not shoot him with the shot gun a hair earlier as I would have hit my dog along with the hog.Then it was too late.God,not skill saved me that day.As much as I love my dogs,they are not worth a human life.I made a split secont foolish decision that could well have cost me my life had I bled to death.My wife and children's need for me was far more important than my love for my dog.I think this is why we were blessed with what ever it is that a dog loves in us.The best is what ever you can use to do the job right,be it deer,rabbit or bird.Be able to do it right or you have no right to go.If you cannot repeat that shot at will,that shot was luck,not skill.I have often found that the best hunters are seldom the best shots.The best hunters are the ones that know what they can do and stick to it.They are man enough to watch the deer of a lifetime walk away if it ain;t right!That is a man!I love you Brothers and Sisters.peewee

[Kutter]

Dang Kutter, you got to be more carefull going up your drive way!~ :smile2:
No, them deer gotta be more careful an stay off my driveway, my eyesight aint all that good. LOL

People on most part are lazy and see sighting in and becoming familar with the limits of their weapon are few and far between.
True, can't argue over that.
No I for once disagree with you.
It had to happen sooner or later. LOL
Ask a old timer in your area and I bet he says more deer have been shot with a .22 than anything.!!
My turn, I have to disagree with you there. Only folks I ever heard about who ever shot deer with a 22 were poachers! Don't give a plug nickel for them types. Besides, I am an old timer!
The average American deer hunter does not shoot his deer rifle more than ten or fifteen times before he goes hunting.
Mercy! I sure aint average then. I wish I could say I shoot even that much before season, but it would be a lie. It's sure not that I disagree with you, it's simply my own shooting experiences. I bought a scope for that old 30-30 back in 1976. Sighted the rifle in and never checked it but once just before each season. It always was dead on. I've had that 7mm Rem Mag now for around 8 years or so. Again, I sighted it in once and have never had a need to change it. It still hits where I aim, which is the object of it all. I have no idea why folks think they need to sight a rifle in over and over. Perhaps they treat their guns harder than I do. However, after saying all that, I admit I am wrong. The purpose for shooting a lot should not be for sighting in, it should be for training our muscles and hand/eye coordination. Simply, it allows us to get used to shooting that particular gun. If you shoot a lot, things have away of taking care of themselves with few surprises. Shooting should become an automatic instinctive reaction. I believe a person should shoot a lot with the guns they use. I wish I could say I follow my own advice, but again, theres that lie trying to sneak in. LOL

[peewee williams]

No, them deer gotta be more careful an stay off my driveway, my eyesight aint all that good. LOL


True, can't argue over that.

It had to happen sooner or later. LOL

My turn, I have to disagree with you there. Only folks I ever heard about who ever shot deer with a 22 were poachers! Don't give a plug nickel for them types. Besides, I am an old timer!

Mercy! I sure aint average then. I wish I could say I shoot even that much before season, but it would be a lie. It's sure not that I disagree with you, it's simply my own shooting experiences. I bought a scope for that old 30-30 back in 1976. Sighted the rifle in and never checked it but once just before each season. It always was dead on. I've had that 7mm Rem Mag now for around 8 years or so. Again, I sighted it in once and have never had a need to change it. It still hits where I aim, which is the object of it all. I have no idea why folks think they need to sight a rifle in over and over. Perhaps they treat their guns harder than I do. However, after saying all that, I admit I am wrong. The purpose for shooting a lot should not be for sighting in, it should be for training our muscles and hand/eye coordination. Simply, it allows us to get used to shooting that particular gun. If you shoot a lot, things have away of taking care of themselves with few surprises. Shooting should become an automatic instinctive reaction. I believe a person should shoot a lot with the guns they use. I wish I could say I follow my own advice, but again, theres that lie trying to sneak in. LOL And this is the reason so many old hunters in America grew up shooting a Daisy red Rider BB gun,a Marlin 39A.22LR and a Marlin lever action 30-30.You could afford to practice daily if you wish.You could even shoot that Daisy in the house into news paper and rags,collect your BB's and use them over and over.The 39A was cheap to shoot and was a wonderfully accurate small game rifle that easily comes apart in the middle with a coin slotted large finger screw.The .22 cost as much as the 30-30 25 years ago.Worth every cent.I first shot this combo 50 years ago.The red Rider was the only thing that I could get to my shoulder.The other two had to go under my armpit.I remember at 12 years old going to the hardware store and buying a box of 30-30's,two boxes of .22's,two rolls of BB's and 6 sticks of dynamite.A kid would spend 90 days going through juvenile and the funny farm if he even tried to do that now days.How I love and miss those 3 guns.Thinking of 30-30,I had forgot about my 308 mauser & Savage 30-30 bolt action clip fed carbine in the earlier post.Hand loaded spire point bullets and you had accuracy!I love you Brothers and sisters.

[Kutter]

I bought a Marlin Golden 39A 22 cal lever action about the same time you did, I guess. It cost $125 back then, afraid to look what it would cost now. I bought it as a "grandchild" gun. You know, one that you can shoot your entire life, then pass it on to a grandchild so they can shoot it their entire life.
By the way, my 30-30 is a Marlin also, Model 336.
I never owned a BB gun when I was young. My father had two rules on guns. For one, no son of his would ever own a BB gun or even a toy gun of any kind. However, when we turned 7, we got a real 22 cal rifle. His belief was that if you were never allowed to "play" with a gun, you stood less chance of "playing" with a real gun. His other rule, every gun in the house was always loaded at all times! He believed that "unloaded" guns kill more folks than loaded ones. If you treated all guns like they were always loaded, then you stood a less chance of having an accident. Don't get me wrong, my father was a safety nut long before it became popular. All guns were kept in a locked closet and no one under the age of 12 could get a gun out or shoot it, without him being there. At 12, we had been around guns long enough to be quite safe with them, and were allowed to hunt alone. All my brothers and myself still have the rifles we got at 7. I am aware of no accident ever occurring with any of us in all those years. My fathers rules would be frowned on in this day an time and I understand the times are different. Yes, I did by my son a 22 at 7 years of age. However, all my guns are stored unloaded.

[BILLYP]

I use a .270 remington and a winchesdter 30-30 model 94 lever action and wouldn't trade either for the world. To me if youa re just starting out you need a light weigh 30-30 or a .270 just because they are one of the omst accurate rifles for a youngster.

[baitchunker]

did i miss something here?

it kinda sounds like you are being more of a critic than a voice of experience alan. and i aint sayin that to step on your toes, i actually agree with you 100%. i hunt for a living 3 mo.s a year, i also have seen the crazy haze of combat. i see a whole lot of ppl that hunt with me who are... less than familiar with a rifle or even themselves in the woods. but i make it a point to be encouraging and helpful (even when its off the clock). hunting is a dieing sport fella's. and the future of hunting depends on the "average hunter" and the little experienced (young) hunter.

once again i may have misunderstood the tone of the thread, if so i apologize. but, if i didnt maybe we could all be more supportive.

guys like yall are perfect to teach some of the younger generations about hunting and proper shooting. there is probably more experience and knowledge in this one thread alone than in any sporting good store around. positive reenforcement... thats all im sayin'. jmvho

j.d.

[peewee williams]

I bought a Marlin Golden 39A 22 cal lever action about the same time you did, I guess. It cost $125 back then, afraid to look what it would cost now. I bought it as a "grandchild" gun. You know, one that you can shoot your entire life, then pass it on to a grandchild so they can shoot it their entire life.
By the way, my 30-30 is a Marlin also, Model 336.
I never owned a BB gun when I was young. My father had two rules on guns. For one, no son of his would ever own a BB gun or even a toy gun of any kind. However, when we turned 7, we got a real 22 cal rifle. His belief was that if you were never allowed to "play" with a gun, you stood less chance of "playing" with a real gun. His other rule, every gun in the house was always loaded at all times! He believed that "unloaded" guns kill more folks than loaded ones. If you treated all guns like they were always loaded, then you stood a less chance of having an accident. Don't get me wrong, my father was a safety nut long before it became popular. All guns were kept in a locked closet and no one under the age of 12 could get a gun out or shoot it, without him being there. At 12, we had been around guns long enough to be quite safe with them, and were allowed to hunt alone. All my brothers and myself still have the rifles we got at 7. I am aware of no accident ever occurring with any of us in all those years. My fathers rules would be frowned on in this day an time and I understand the times are different. Yes, I did by my son a 22 at 7 years of age. However, all my guns are stored unloaded.My father was much like yours.The Red Ryder BB gun was a trainer and a cheap shooting practice gun for the 39A,which was the same for the 336.It was treated as,and was handled exactly as every other gun in every way.It was and it is a gun.I too was never allowed to play with any gun,including a BB gun.I was not allowed with boys playing with BB guns.My children were raised the same.Even when disassembled and cleaning,you treat a gun as if it was assembled and loaded.I am very uncomfortable looking down the muzzle of any gun,even a barrel completely removed from the action.It just gives me the "willies"as we call it.Now,I don;t get this feeling looking down the chamber end.When my sons went to the "Hunter Education"course,"they already knew it" per their instructor.Had they not already known it,I would have been failing them.Yes,I think our fathers were much alike.We were very fortunate.Their very actions and sense of responsibility showed their love for us.I love you Brothers and Sisters.peewee

[Cathooker]

Baitchunker....I am sorry if I sounded like a critic.,...that is not my intention. I believe in ethical hunting and killing the animal as quickly as possible. I get riled up when someone starts preaching that a 22 caliber rimfire, be it a magnum or a long rifle is ok to deer hunt with. YES, we all know that a 22 will kill a deer if it is placed just right, but in reality the rimfires are illegal in most states and even the 22 caliber centerfires are not the gun for most hunters and especially a beginning hunter. The larger magnums will dispatch a deer quicker than anything but most of the beginning hunters can not effectively shoot one. They are all over the target because they are afraind of the recoil. Shot placement is everything. In my original post it was my intent to show that the average deer hunter should stay within the parameters of what is considered a mid range caliber....ranging from the 243 up to the 30 06. This includes everything in between. They can shoot these guns more accurately than the magnums and these calibers have enough knock down power to dispatch the animal if the shot is not quite on target. Your average deer hunter will only shoot his rifle just before deer season. Most of the time this shooting is done from a rest, in a controlled situation, at a paper target.
I do not believe that we should ever tell an inexperienced hunter to aim for the head or neck. If someone wants to shot one there then that is their choice but to me it is not an ethical shot.