Shoot Or Not You Make The Call

[SSG Johnson]

Just an Idea for something fun to do and maybe learn something while we are at it. Take a real situation that happened to you and tell what happened and let everyone deiced where or not they would have taken the shoot and why.

Ok last day of Muzzleloader season and you havent really killed anything that you where looking for nomatter what it was.

There is a food ploot that runs North and south freshly plowed about 500 yards from a main road. Deer tracks everywhere and I mean big ones.

You start to walk the food plot heading south with the wind coming out of the west. About 5-6 MPH.

After you get about 100 yards down the food plot as doe a big one jumps from a thicket 10 yards from you up wind and stops at 20 yards. You have some brush a briar patch really in front of you its not real thick you can see the doe clearly but the stems are about 1/8 in Diameter.
Your shooting a muzzleloader 50 cal and you have it driving tacks at 50 yrds.


SHoot or hold the shot.
Please put your reason to shoot or not to shot. Feel free to asked questions.

[bluecatnut]

i presonally would wait her out if she bust u and huals @$$ big deal but it in mho it is better to let her walk and get bigger than take that shot and it deflects off one of those briar stems and wound her letting her suffer and die with out you finding her .

[crazy]

Shoot. If the briar patch is as thin as it sounds. 20yards with a 250gr load is a chip shot.

[spoonfish]

Well I take it your walking south away from the road? If so she if definetly in range , the question is there a large enough opening in the brush to hit the vitals without risk of hitting the brush. If the opening in the brush is not there I would hold and wait for a clear shot.

[centralcalcat]

I wait. I have passed up many animals due to makable, but not optimal shots and this would be no exception. Wait till she comes out and take her down, if she spooks with the tracks you are seeing there will probably be another one to come by eventually.

-Brian

[spoonfish]

Chuck if they just plowed the field whats that dang brush doin there anyway LOL.

[SSG Johnson]

Its on the right hand side to the west of you just inside the wood line. Let me add to the scenerio.......

You have seen a Buck in the area for the last two nights as well from the truck driving out. He looked to be about 130-140 class deer. Up near the road 500 yrds from you, just at dark. Both times he was by himself and headed north. This food plot as well is about 1/4 mile long and about as wide as a city street.

[VerotiK]

I'd wait to try and see if she was hauling in the good buck behind her. If it didnt happen very fast, and like crazy said, if it was that thin, aint much that thin gonna stop a 250gr bullet from 60 feet. She'd be down.

[Whistler]

If I can see it clearly it's not too thick to shoot in my opinion. On my place you described most of my shots at deer. Thick undergrowth in most places. I've taken many shots like that and haven't wounded a deer yet because of the brush. Even from my treestand it's so thick where the majority of the deer come from that I have to make that decision most of the time I see a deer. At twenty yards it would take a heck of a deflection to make a real bad miss. Doe now(sure thing) or Buck later(toss of the dice)? Doe everytime!! Meat in the freezer, we have unlimited doe tags here. LOL Well, 3 a day anyway. Buck's are a different story, 3 a year for those.

[MadKater]

clear shot id take it and eat my buck tag.........thats 1 less doe off my property and another year to let the buck i didnt shoot get bigger lol

[crazy]

If everyone was smart they would not vote tell they knew the whole story! Do I have a doe tag to burn or just an any deer tag in my pocket? Is there another doe season after the smoke pole season? Is the doe looking nervus, or is she looking over her shoulder at something? I guess this is a never ending story in away. I would still shoot it. Horns don't mean nothing to me.

[derbycitycatman]

I wouldnt shoot. Briars are briars, Im not a brush shooter. If I can see the briars im not shooting. Ive lost enough deer by hitting limbs i didnt see. I dont need to shoot through brush I can see. JMHO

[Bayoubear]

given the scenario posted of course i'd harvest the doe. that is indeed a "chip" shot. with 440 yards of food plot to stare down armed with a muzzleloader, take the chip shot and be home in time for supper.

[Big Country01]

i'd shoot cause if i clearly see her then the brush ain't to thick for a 50 cal. sabot at 20 yards and a 1/8 briar twig isn't gonna deflect that much...
now let me ask you are does legal in your nick of the woods during smoke pole season???????

[derbycitycatman]

Where I hunt your allowed 1 buck and as many does as you want. Unlimited doe tags if you want to keep buying them.

I had a situation something like that early in rifle season minus the food plots. Was walking down a path and spotted a doe. I laid down under the brush, everything looked open and I took the shot. Looked open but I guess it wasnt. Noticed later that week where I had hit a limb of thorns that I thought I was under. Never did find the deer or blood, hopefully it was a clean miss. Took a doe a couple days later that dropped her where she stood. Nice open shot where I had cleared earlier in the year. I could understand why the shot would be taken or not taken. I notice my hunting methods and shot selection change with more experience and different situations that I find myself in.

[SSG Johnson]

OK yes it is legal to take Doe's or Bucks during the smoke pole season. However I did not shot even through it was a chip shot but wondered why the doe didn't blow just trotted off. I thought maybe that big boy I had been seeing was around maybe he was in the same thicket. I looked the thicket over as best I could but didn't see any antlers sticking. Up so I moved on down the food plot heading south. When I got to the end I turned around and headed back to the begging of the food plot. I noticed a big oak tree about 50 yards from the same thicket the doe came out of and thought I will still hunt there for the rest of the evening and maybe the doe will come back and I would get a shot at her. When I was about 10 yards from the big oak a huge Buck stood up in the thicket and jumped into the middle of the food plot he was about 50-60 yards and took off like he was on fire running away from me. I raised the riffle and could see the back side of the deer clearly at this point he was about 75 yards still going the other way. Do you shoot or not what would you do and why. I would estimate a 150-170 class buck big big buck.

[Mark J]

Whistler , same here. You got to learn to shoot through holly trees if you want to kill deer. Nothing wrong with a few splinters in the meat. makes for a ready toothpick.

Just like when someone asks me what my cut off is as far as distance in shooting deer. My reply is always the same. If I can see it, I can shoot at it.
I dont have a coupla thousand in a rifle and a 24 power scope for looks.
Those piles of brass out in the lowgrounds arent from plinking cans at 100 meters either.

The reasoning you ask?
Well, I've bird hunted the majority of my life.
Take a dove. Flying erratically at 55 MPH I'm thundering some shells off.
Best case I drop the bird right at my feet and a few times caught birds in my hand or by holding my bird vest open.
Worst case is a puff of feathers and a winged bird sitting in a tree somewhere waiting for a slow death.
Let me tell you, I've winged my fair share of birds and the only differences between a bird or deer is the size of the animal and one grows horns that seem to drive some folks nuts.

Shoot the deer. There is nothing to discuss if you dont pull the trigger, might as well have stayed home and read buckmasters sitting on the porcelain throne.

[TDawgNOk]

Personally, on the big Buck, I wouldn't take the shot, I would come back to the area later and try and get him. If I am gonna take a shot at a nice buck, it's going to be when I can get a clean 1 shot, 1 kill.

[Mark J]

Tony, There is nice one on the farm that is brazen. He has been shot at 3 times in the last 2 weeks and all were misses. These guys arent good at 225 yard standing shots but they'll never get him if they dont atleast try.
I say one of these youngins will pick him off in the next few weeks by trying.

I have been guilty as many have in letting nice deer grow old and die because I was trying to be too picky. Just SHOOT!

[crazy]

TDawgNOk, You missed it man. There is no coming back tomorrow it's the last day!.. That said damn skippy I'm pulling the trigger, buck or doe I would still shoot. I can't count all the deer I shot running away from me. If I can see it and think I can hit it I'm pulling the trigger.

[spoonfish]

75 yards running directly away and you have your sight's dead on him. You know you can drive tacks at this distance. There is no haveing to lead him running in that direction. I will probably get some flack about haveing the perfect brod side shot but a shot placed at the base of his tail will bring him down in a hurry. I had a very large buck do the exact same, he made it maybe 50 yards and I think that was just from forward momention. All the vitals were taken out from the bullet going thru.

[Fordman]

On the doe in the first story, I'd not shoot. That's just me. If there is any chance of a deflection with a bullet, no matter how slight, I'd just rather not take the shot, last day or not. On the buck, take the shot. It's in the clear and moving straight away. No compensation required. The vital organs will be rearranged just the same as if you shot him in the side. Meat in the freezer.

[derbycitycatman]

The only problem I see with shooting at running deer is your less likely to know whats behind that deer. I normally hunt fairly close to houses and roads and Ive always been taught one shot one kill. Theres a big difference between a slug and birdshot hitting something or someone from 100yards. Birdshot wouldnt be fatal.

[Mark J]

You got that right, we dont allow shotgunning for deer here. High powered only. For safety reasons of course,

[SSG Johnson]

Well just as I started to pull the trigger the deer made a hard right giving me a broadside shot I put it scope just on the brisket of the deer pulled the trigger and waited for the smoke to clear. The deer was gone and it was a clean miss. The rub of the whole thing to me is why didnt i shoot him in the butt when he first started to run. Dont know but I tell you what a way to end the season the only thing better would be turning the buck in to the big buck contest but I still have bow season and next year.

[spoonfish]

Chuck, it sounds like you have him patterned pretty well. You will enjoy it more by harvesting him with your bow any way. I would set up a stand there and get ready for round 2.
Good Luck!!!

[SSG Johnson]

Im thinking he was in that thicket with the doe that was not the same buck I had been seeing on the road the one on the road has really dark antlers and this one was snow white. I saw a really good place to put my stand for a bow hunt the problem is the area on post isnt open all that much which is good but its hard to plan a hunt in that area. I still have one more muzzleloader hunt on Ft. Leonardwood the weekend before christmas maybe i will get him then. Seem though in years past that most bucks brought in only had one antler or non at all. I will not shoot one this time of year with only one antler would rather shoot a doe and let that buck live anouther year. Maybe I will see him again I sure hope so.

[Mark J]

Those misses give you something to talk about dont they?
I didn't pull the trigger makes for a real short conversation. :D

[badkarma]

Baitfish why wouldn't you take a going away shot at a deer?? I once shot a big buck at 100yds in a dead run away from me and killed him in mid leap as he was jumping over a downed tree.

[badkarma]

If you are on target why not shoot.

[Bayoubear]

[QUOTE=Buck stood up in the thicket and jumped into the middle of the food plot he was about 50-60 yards and took off like he was on fire running away from me. I raised the riffle and could see the back side of the deer clearly at this point he was about 75 yards still going the other way. Do you shoot or not what would you do and why. I would estimate a 150-170 class buck big big buck.[/QUOTE]

if the bucks at a life-or-death-fast-as-it-can run i'd let it slide by. movement too erratic to rely on a single shot. that deer will be back and so would I. if the bucks moving at a good clip but not all out... and i could raise up, focus a clean sight picture, and feel confident in a reasonable chance of a spinal shot id likely take it. hard to say tho, i dont think there is anyone in here than can honestly say a 160 class buck under 100 yards wouldnt obscure their judgement somewhat.

[steveg442]

I took my son hunting one year. Being the proud dad I wanted him to get the first shot. I knew the area I was hunting pretty well and decided to jump one hoping it would head in his direction. Needless to say they did just the opposite. I shot the last of eight deer running down the hill. After a 1/2 hour I headed back to the loggin' road and my son was standing there. He told me that he saw a 13 pointer about 75 yards away from him but did't shot because he didn't know where I was. I told him that would have been a tough call for me.

[VerotiK]

As far as the running shot, i would not shoot if he was running away from me and all i could see is his butt. I would be very hard pressed to shoot if he was running broadside. I haven't ever taken a running shot, mainly because i dont feel comfortable. I've never really shot skeet or done any bird hunting that requires learning to "lead" a moving object, if thats even how you do it. Maybe if i had practiced shooting a moving target, then maybe i'd take the shot. I helped the neighbor this weekend recover a deer he'd popped off 3 rounds at on the last day of gun season. He killed the deer. It was running through the woods away from him and he hit it 2 out of 3 times. Once in the chest, the other shot took the bottom half of the back leg off. Not a quality kill, but a kill none the less. No, i wouldn't take that shot at this point in time. NEXT! :D

[H2O Mellon]

I am very particular about my shots. I would wait until I felt like I could get a nice clean kill shot. I'll pass up the doe 99/100 times. I've killed enough does to where I want Bucks only. I wait, wait, wait.

[Cutshad]

Hope this doesn't offend anyone, but I would smoke em.. My consideration is more of what is past the deer. I agree with you all on your opinions. I just feel comfortable shooting rifles, very comfortable. I have shot deer in the same scenario and killed them dead. I have trailed some too, to find out they were hit in the same vital areas they just went further for some reason. I have also not taken shots for various reasons. I like deer meat, so, it would have to be bad for me not to take a shot.

[MadKater]

I am very particular about my shots. I would wait until I felt like I could get a nice clean kill shot. I'll pass up the doe 99/100 times. I've killed enough does to where I want Bucks only. I wait, wait, wait.
H2O.dont take this to heart.....but people need to understand they need to take does,thier are to many hunters that want to kill bucks only,this is not a good thing. when i think i have killed enough does i kill another one{legaly of course} its a proven fact that deer herds are more healthy where the buck to doe ratio is about equal,and studies have shown the bucks are much larger as well.
the best way to do this so not to mess with your buck hunting is to take does ealry and late,save the buck hunting for the rut...im not sure how Ohios deer seasons go along with the rut tho.
The state i live in is just now starting to pull thier heads from thiers butts and actually toying around with making IN a big buck state.they are doing this by adding restrictions.like the OBR{One buck rule} soon we will probably go to antler restrictions and hopefully lower fees for our doe tags to encourge hunters to take more does.this wa sthe first year IN allowed th euse of our bonus antlerless tags in the archery seasons,which was a major step since we have alot of bow only hunters and it gave us{the bowhunters} a chance to do our part in doe reduction..none of this is a quick fix to a better deer herd with larger bucks,its all long term,which ticks alot o people off but they will change thie rminds when more and more record bucks start showing up.
again im not picking on you so please dont think this post is pointing fingers at ya H2O....have a good un :)

[SSG Johnson]

I think what he was saying is he is a trophy hunter nothing wrong with that. Matter of fact I think finally this year it accured to me that you have to let those does and young bucks pass to even get to see the big boy. Last time I was in Ill. a friend was standing by and chit chatting when I said "Man I really havent seen anything but young bucks and does this year a few big boys but not like i have before. He looked at me and said "keep skinning them does and you arnt going to ever see the boy boy. Man it was like bells went off. Last year I saw alot of bucks not any that where record book but some nice ones. I was buck hunting last year alot and was letting the does and small bucks walk. THis year I was a if its brown and legal its going down and I think that had alot to do with it. You have to wait to kill the trophy and you have to pass on something that is smaller than you are looking for if its not the one. Eventually you will see the big boy and get a shot. I think that is one of the lessons that will forever be burned into my mind. Let the does walk to see the big boy he will come.

[H2O Mellon]

Yeap, I've been deer hunting long enough to know how it works. I am more a trophy hunter now, but feel free to buy my doe tag for $24 & my porcessing fee of $62 & I'll shoot a doe! :) My problem is that I will usually let the 8 point Bucks pass by in early bow season only be wishing in January that I'd had popped one becasue I didnt see anything bigger for the rest of the year. People will usually take around 10 does off our 40 acres that we have, so beleive me it's fine. We have a very good buck to doe ratio. The next two yars should be good according to the camera pics.

FYI: During the rut we are in bow season, so beleive me Ohio hunters kill a TON of does during the shotgun season. Take a look @ the record book & you'll see that we (Ohio) are doing quite well on trophy Bucks! (Mike Beatys Buck "aka" The Beaty Buck, shot 10 min from my house!, plus Brad Jermans buck from last year, which is the WORLD record cross bow kill, "aka" The Jerman Buck)

[H2O Mellon]

Here is what I am looking for, here in Ohio.


Everyone knows about "The Beaty Buck" It scored 304 6/8 & is the only 300+ buck that has been shot by a hunter. (He got it w/ a compound bow)

Brad Jerman's buck "The Jerman Buck" scored 202 1/8 (largest crossbow kill ever)

Brad has live video of his buck the day before her harvested it. The video is on his web site & is pretty neat to watch.

[flathunter]

H20 Mellon, trophy flathead hunter, as well as trophy deer hunter! :D

[MadKater]

nope nothing at all wrong with being a "trophy" hunter.and H2O i hear ya on the doe tags being so expensive,here in IN they are also $24 a piece and that is way to expensive,i guess i just forget sometimes that not everyone has a lifetime liscense.
it is true that if ya spend all your time shootin does how ya gonna see any bucks.thats why i like to spend the first few weeks of early archery and late archery/muzz season to hunt does and leave the buck hunting for the rut which sucks because IN gun season is usally at the peek of our rut which meens i gotta be out with the orange mob packin shotguns i wish our early archery season opened a week later and the gun season was set back a week but i guess that wouldnt be fair for the gun hunters....i wish IN would do some of the same things our neighboring states do.
does ohio have any restrictions like 1 buck per year,antler restriction or anything like that?

[H2O Mellon]

My brother in law wants me to use one of his Matthews next year. If I do that, then come Oct 1st, I'll probablly take the 1st doe I see, shoot I may thake the 2nd doe I see too. I've never gotten one w/ a compound bow. On the Sun before Ohio deer season (the day after I saw the nice 8 point) my cross bow messe dup & started slicing vein & got all outta wack. I picked up one of his Matthews & started shooting it. The 1st time I shot a compund for a couple years. At 25 yars I was w/ in 2 inches of where I was aiming & grouping great. So I took that bow out that evening, didnt see any deer, but wow, what a nice bow. I really like how it felt, so I may be converting!

[river scum]

IMO

i think shooting at running deer is fine,if you have the confidence from practicing. i shot 2 deer that were on the run this year. the first one jumpped up and halled bass broad side at 30yrds. one slug threw the vitals and tumble. the other deer was running strait away at 50yrds. that deer fell dead in her tracks after i put one down her pipe. a 1oz. slug from that end can make field dressing a dirty job,but it will definatly do the job. i do alot of clay shooting with the same gun i hunt deer with hence the confidence. i have also been hunting my whole life and dont get as excited as i used to. if your not calm n collected at the time of the shot dont shoot. i hear a few guns get unloaded each year,and wonder if they are even using thier sights. each shot should be a well placed shot for a humaine kill! im not saying its rite or wrong, but if you feel you can then do it. there is no substitute for practice,or knowing your limitations.

remember these are my opinions and not directed at any of my brothers or sisters.