New bait size restrictions for kansas residents

[Catfish Fever]

For those who didn't notice when/if you read this years regulations, which I didn't, no bait fish over 12 inches may be used, I don't know why not, but its there on pages 5 and 7 of the 2006 Kansas Fishing Regulation Summary. I found out about it from Dale Finney (Dafin) when he visited the other evening. He may have posted it some where else, just thought I'd put it in here. The way it reads, this will include Carp and Shad. It also states you can use Black bass and Crappie if you catch them with line and hook and they're under 12 inches(?) Who knows what evil lurks in the minds of the KDWP?

[onlyone]

No I hadn't heard that. Though it doesn't concern me too much, as my bait is rarely longer than 4-6 inches. I don't think it will be too inhibiting, because as far as I know very few people use them that big. Sorry to hear that though, if you do. I'm sure you'll do fine with smaller ones.:)

[JayGonefishing]

Thanks for letting us know. I hadn't read that far I guess.

[crazy]

What about the missouri river? It has different rules for it since kansas and missouri kind of share there rules for that body of water.

[GaryF]

I didn't realize it either, but I just found the same rule in the 2005 booklet, so it's not "new" for 2006. I'm glad that all of my baitfish last year were 11 1/2" :rolleyes:

I didn't see any exemptions for the MO River, and Missouri does have a similar rule.

[bigflathunter]

:rolleyes: It's actually been like that for at least the last two years. You can't keep a bait fish that is over 12", but you can use any legally taken wildlife (including sport fish such as largemouth bass or crappie) for bait. The problem is that if using a largemouth for bait, it cannot be over 12", and most waters have a 12 or 15" minimum limit on largemouth, and since a largemouth under 15" is illegall to take, it can't be used for bait. Also note that some bait fish are also sport fish, including bluegill, green sunfish, and redear, so they must be caught by hook and line since you can't use a net to take any sport fish. Luckily, I've never used a cast net to catch green sunfish congregating on the bottom of a boat ramp. :rolleyes:

Here are the regulations for fishing the MO directly from the 2006 fishing regulations book (found on page 5):

License Requirements: Anglers with either a valid Kansas or Missouri fishing license
may fish any flowing portion and backwaters of the Missouri River and any oxbow lake
through which the river flows.They may fish from and attach any legal fishing equipment
to the land adjoining these waters.

Limitations: Tributaries of the Missouri may not be fished without a valid fishing license from
the state through which the tributary flows. If any law or regulation governing fishing in the
Missouri River is different from the corresponding law or regulation in the state for which
the angler has a license, the more restrictive state’s law or regulation will apply. Each angler
must keep all legally caught fish restrained separately from any other angler. Bow and
arrow or crossbow with a barbed head and a line attached are legal only from sunrise to
midnight. Each angler may use three fishing lines. :) In addition, each angler may use one
trotline with no more than 25 hooks OR eight setlines with no more than two hooks each.

[Calvin]

That's just anlther "Catch 22" law from our beloved WDWP. How many of us us bait that large anyway? I do, but only on specific sets. Its probably a law designed to confuse people into thinking they are legal and then sticking them with a ticket. The proceeds from the fines probably go to the KDWP's favorite charity, the non resident outfitters......

[Catfish Fever]

I looked in the same sections in the 2005 issue and didn't see it there, the last time, looked again, and sure enough, there it is. I don't use 12inchers (shad) whole, but the last run, earlier this year we netted 5 buckets full, most of which were at least 12" if not more,(disclaimer follows) of course I could be mistaken, not much good at estimating lengths, specially in a bucket full of squirming shad.. Got them for the guts (retail $8 a pint) and cut bait.

[barbel]

I find it very common for governments to make something as simple as fishing and make it incredibly complicated :rolleyes: I think Calvin said it best with his theory that the money goes straight into the pockets of the idiots making these laws. If I find the guy that got the crazy idea to write that law, I am going to hit him with one of my 12" shad just to get my point across ;)

[cook]

For those who didn't notice when/if you read this years regulations, which I didn't, no bait fish over 12 inches may be used, Who knows what evil lurks in the minds of the KDWP?
Very odd.
What if you had a 13 inch shad and made cut bait out of it.??:confused:

Very curious why they would allow gamefish to be used,but not larger shad or carp

[Catchinbiguns]

Man that sucks, I've probably had bait fish that big and did'nt think twice about using it.

[kscatman]

I've actually known about that law for at least 15yrs or more. when I catch some big shad I try to gut and filet them quickly. I once asked a gamewarden at perry spillway why it was against the law to keep baitfish over 12", he replied that they are the breeding stock.

[CatfishSam]

Wow I didn't know, I never get any that big anyway.

[Catfish Fever]

A very interesting point concerning not being able to keep carp or shad over 12". When the corps cleaned out the spilling below Milford Lake last year, they took all the rough fish, include LARGE shad and carp, which are illegal for us to net, but them I reckon, and dumped them up above the dam for folks to take, for whatever reason.

[cook]

A very interesting point concerning not being able to keep carp or shad over 12".

Wait a min.....I'm getting lost...you can't keep over 12 inches or you can keep them but not use for bait.:confused: Can you cut a over 12 inch shad into cut bait,just not use it whole...this is getting into lawyerspeak...way over my head

[retired stump jumper]

Thanks for the info. Catfish fevor I have used bigger fish than that to fish for flats, guess I will have to change my ways of fishing for flats.

[kspor]

I work with and enforce laws made by Kansas. Problem is the committie. They get a bunch of input from all sources and often make a law that makes no sense and is hard to inforce, or punishes all without reguard to history. When the law comes open you ask for certain things to make enforcement easier and easy to understand so there shouldnt be a need for enforcement and they give you back a law that leaves you shuddering.

Hunters Ed is a prime example. Used to be simple if you wanted to hunt you had to have it. Now you can hunt without it as long as your under age 16 and meet half a dozen other requirements. I am an instructor and the whole thing leaves me confused. I can only say it benefits the outfitters without reguard to safety.

[Calvin]

There is a simple way to get around this ridiculous law, not that I would ever consider breaking one of Kansas' reasonable and worthwhile fish and game laws. But I've been told by "somone" that if your bait is over 12" in length, simply hook it in the mouth. That's the way I hook large baits anyway and who is to say that the fish didn't just bite one your hook . Of course I would never advise anyone to do anything like that and I have never done it.....

[GaryF]

Unfortunately, by the time they go through the process to make a law legal you just about need a lawyer to understand it most of the time. But it's sad when regulations get so complex that normally law abiding citizens are unable to understand them.

Last night I was fishing below Truman Dam in Missouri, using cut Goldeye for bait. I had a tail piece lying on the rock, an intact goldeye in my bag, and pieces out on my 3 rods. A conservation agent came to check me, and while I knew I was doing nothing wrong, I started thinking about the technicalities he might get me on...

12" live bait limit - my goldeye was right on the line. The Missouri regs on this are almost beyond comprehension. There is a 12" limit on live bait (5" for some types). Is a frozen goldeye classified as "live bait"? If not, that means it's ok to catch it live, kill it, and put it out there. But you can't put the very same fish out there live. That's how I interpret the rule, but it doesn't make sense to me, from a conservation standpoint.

"The head, tail, and skin must remain attached to all fish for which length limits are established" The agent looking at my bait was having trouble classifying it without the head. If I hadn't had an intact sample, I'm not sure what the outcome would have been. I understand this rule, but it seems like a tough one to enforce.

"Live bait, as defined in this code, obtained from waters of the state, may not be transported from the state or sold." Once again, the goldeye was dead, but I'm not 100% that it is not still classified as live bait just because it perished. I live in Kansas now, I catch my bait in both Missouri and Kansas.

In the end, the agent checking me seemed to have no interest in the length of my bait or where it came from, he just wanted to figure out what it was. He was always polite and respectful, and once he saw that it wasn't a gamefish, he wished me luck and told me to enjoy my evening. Hopefully all agents are like that.

[barbel]

There is a simple way to get around this ridiculous law, not that I would ever consider breaking one of Kansas' reasonable and worthwhile fish and game laws. But I've been told by "somone" that if your bait is over 12" in length, simply hook it in the mouth. That's the way I hook large baits anyway and who is to say that the fish didn't just bite one your hook . Of course I would never advise anyone to do anything like that and I have never done it.....

We dont doubt that you have never done this, and I advise anyone that would even think about doing this not to even consider doing so. It is a crazy plan that would likely never work and is a completely rediculous notion. What kind of a sick twisted mind got the idea to lie to conservation agents so that fishing could become more of the sport it once was and not so complicated and controlled? That is completely rediculous and should be punished by death ;) LOL

[Calvin]

I agree the death penalty is the appropriate punishment for violation of our game laws. But alas, this is Kansas, and we are trying to overturn the death penalty, even though it was approved in a statewide election. I guess the only reasonable alternative is to deny violators the privlege of buying a third pole permit.......

[kcgeoff]

We dont doubt that you have never done this, and I advise anyone that would even think about doing this not to even consider doing so. It is a crazy plan that would likely never work and is a completely rediculous notion. What kind of a sick twisted mind got the idea to lie to conservation agents so that fishing could become more of the sport it once was and not so complicated and controlled? That is completely rediculous and should be punished by death ;) LOL

Wow the death penalty for breaking one of Kansas stupid laws? :confused: LOL
I thought Calvin's idea was pretty good. I've found that most large bait stays more lively hooked througthe lips. I'll just have to make sure I hook any bait over 12" through the lips. As I don't think they would believe I snagged a 12" bass with my 8/0 circle hook. LOL

[kcgeoff]

:rolleyes: It's actually been like that for at least the last two years. You can't keep a bait fish that is over 12", but you can use any legally taken wildlife (including sport fish such as largemouth bass or crappie) for bait. The problem is that if using a largemouth for bait, it cannot be over 12", and most waters have a 12 or 15" minimum limit on largemouth, and since a largemouth under 15" is illegall to take, it can't be used for bait. Also note that some bait fish are also sport fish, including bluegill, green sunfish, and redear, so they must be caught by hook and line since you can't use a net to take any sport fish. Luckily, I've never used a cast net to catch green sunfish congregating on the bottom of a boat ramp. :rolleyes:


Wait a minute Bluegils, green sunfish, and redear are gamefish? So your saying if I "accidently" castnetted a bucket full of them I have to release them? I was always under the impression they were non-gamefish and could be netted.

[Pittscat90]

Thanks for letting us know about the new bait size restrictions. I live and fish a lot in kansas and i didn't know that.

[BoCaHoLiC]

Wait a minute Bluegils, green sunfish, and redear are gamefish? So your saying if I "accidently" castnetted a bucket full of them I have to release them? I was always under the impression they were non-gamefish and could be netted.

Hiya Geoff. How's it going buddy? I believe you are correct about being able to keep baitfish of the sunfish family using your castnet.

First off, according to the KDWP, baitfish include all fish of the sunfish family (Centrarchidae). The only exception is for black basses and crappie, which may be used only if caught by hook and line. Click here for KDWP's list of "baitfish". (http://www.kdwp.state.ks.us/news/fishing/fishing_regulations/definitions/bait_fish)

Secondly, according to KDWP, since ALL SUNFISH are baitfish, you MAY use a castnet to catch the above named baitfish (except black bass and crappie). Click here for "Methods of obtaining Baitfish (KDWP) (http://www.kdwp.state.ks.us/news/fishing/fishing_regulations/bait_fish)

I hope this clears up the baitfish by castnet issue a bit. Let me know if you interpret the readings from KDWP differently from the above links. Thanks.

[smallriverrat]

Greetings my Ks buddies,
I thought you would like to know of a rule change for MO, since alot of you fish the MO river. As of March 1, 2006 there is no longer a length limit on bighead, common, silver, grass carp and goldfish as long as you use it for live bait. Also from what I have read there is not a daily limit on those fish. I just wanted to let ya know.

And I am sorry to hear about KS not letting us use big live bait.

Dave

[GaryF]

Dave, Good catch on the Missouri regulations. I hadn't noticed that change.

[bigflathunter]

This is where they are going to ticket people, Josh. You are right about what you say, and I did the same thing for awhile, netting bluegills and greenies for bait. The law is really confusing. If you read on the same page where bait fish are defined (page 6), it defines sport fish, and includes:

"Sport fish: Northern pike, walleye, sauger,
saugeye, yellow perch, striped bass, white
bass, wiper (white bass/striped bass hybrid),
black bass (largemouth, spotted, and smallmouth),
trout, channel catfish, blue catfish,
flathead catfish, paddlefish, and panfish (bullhead,
black and white crappie, bluegill, redear
sunfish, green sunfish, warmouth, and rock
bass)."

And in the common concerns section on pg 6 it says:

"• Nets are illegal for taking sport fish. Dip or cast nets (mesh no larger than 3/8-inch) and seines (mesh no larger than 1/4-inch) may be used to take bait fish."

And "take" is defined as:

"Take: To harass, harm, pursue, shoot, wound, kill, molest, trap, capture, collect, catch, possess or otherwise take or attempt to take."

So even though it can go both ways, and it is easy to look at that confusing mess that our wonderful KDWP came up with and think it is okay to take bait fish with a net, and bluegills are bait fish, since they are also sport fish I think it would be considered illegal to take them with a net. For the purposes of this conversation I will interpret it in this way, but that's not to say I agree with the law and will always abide to the strictest letter. :rolleyes:

All we do by netting some green sunfish is put them in a position where they are more likely to become flathead food. They're all going to get eaten anyways, we're just making their trip to fate a little bit quicker. :)

[GaryF]

Hehehe... So basically, Kansas defines Bluegill, Green Sunfish, etc as both Sport Fish and as Bait Fish. It's ok to net Bait Fish, but illegal to net Sport Fish. Just to keep folks honest, they spread this "explanation" out all over the booklet. I think I'll move back to Missouri :eek:

[GaryF]

Just to clarify one thing, I don't really believe the regulations are set up to intentionally confuse people into a violation. But a lot of violations do result from difficult to understand regulations.

[center12]

If ya slip your boat in on the Kaw real late at night no one seems to notice wht your using for bait................stealth is the answer my friends:cool:

[catfishcentral]

Man, I thought Oklahoma laws were at times a little confusing:confused: :confused: I think I'd keep a perch pole with me at all times just in case some jerk tried to "interpet" the laws a little different and a sharp knife to make sure my baitfish was under 12 inches.

[BoCaHoLiC]

Aaron, yes I see how it could go either way. Too bad we don't know some Kansas DNR's to ask. I guess we would probably get different answers depending on which one was asked anyway :0a16: .

I'm in agreement Gary. Just move back to Missouri, use 3 poles, bluegills, and catch big blues.

[barbel]

Man, I thought Oklahoma laws were at times a little confusing:confused: :confused: I think I'd keep a perch pole with me at all times just in case some jerk tried to "interpet" the laws a little different and a sharp knife to make sure my baitfish was under 12 inches.

Hmm...thats not a bad idea at all. If the guy accuses you of having too big of bait you can justify that its dinner for tomorrow night, and then youre trying to get some catfish too. Not bad. Not bad at all. And then if you dont have the perch pole, a good thwack with the knife could give you an opportunity to hawk that tail end into the river. Better than a ticket anyways

[JayGonefishing]

Catching a 12" carp around here is tough to find. Have not caught a small carp lately, but guess I'll have to. But 1st that Grass Carp. I was talking to a few old timers and they said they've seen allot bigger than a 60+ lb. We'll see.

[kscathunter]

I've never worried about being fined for bait. Ive never been asked about what bait I'm using either. As far as cutbait (carp-shad) goes They are a rough fish and size shouldnt matter, who would eat a stinky shad, if they are too big chop um up then who knows how big they were. I believe they are trying to keep people from wasting sportfish for bait when rough fish will do fine. people target gills crappie and sutch for both bait and dinner so they are considered both, so to try to keep people from overfishing them they make size windows for both so they wont have to restock the species. Getting tired hope I mase sence:blink: